50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

It's always interesting to hear what other people are doing. AK-55's post is very similar to how I would describe my level and training. I have been able to maintain about the same racing level for the past 14-15 years (since my late 40s) with similar training, but slightly increasing total volume with the added years: That is mid 18s for 5K, 38-39 for 10K.

I also like to run a base close to 60 miles a week of daily 8-10 mile runs with higher intensities 2-3 times per week. The "workout" days get up to a 5x hard mile/easy mile day with the hard miles starting in the low 7s and descending to close to 6:00 and the easy miles at 8:30-9:30, a 16x :30hard/:30easy up a 2 mile hill that gains 800'elevation, and a 45-60 min progressive run with my sons on the weekend.

The above is my optimum training plan. I usually get into it about May each year and stay with it to the beginning of XC season in early August. I race about 8 XC races from August to mid-November each year with my mileage dropping and speed work increasing throughout the season. So, I end up down to about 35-40mpw by the end of November. I take two weeks of doing as little or as much training as I feel like and then start building back the mileage. After age 60 it takes a long time to rebuild the mileage without overtraining or injury risk. Outside of XC season I will do 4-6 road or track races whenever I see a race that looks interesting or I am feeling good and want a fitness check.

Thanks for the reply, and to everyone else who answered.

I live in the U.S. now, but was just an OK U.S. club runner 30 years ago (1:57 800m, 4:01 1500m, 4:20 mile - 58 last lap - 8:45 3k - although with a 60 last lap and 2:06 last mile - and from a handful of track 5ks, 15:22).

I had more speed than endurance, but on reflection, massively ovetrained in terms of absolutely hammering reps, and under-doing aerobic training (trained like a maniac, but probably rarely hit 50 miles per week).

Did OK at 5k road races when moving over here in my late 30s, and also placed a couple of times in the masters nationals at 3k s/c.

Got "stuck" in a slump in my early 50s, as self-coached. Switched to Greg McMillan about 3 1/2 years ago and have been very pleased with the results, hitting a lot of age graded PRs.

At the moment live in Mississippi - but moving to North West at the end of the year - and having been training completly by myself. Hard here to get into good races on flat courses, and for much of the racing season the weather is brutal, so you only get one or two shots at a decent time each year. I did run 17:52 on the track last year in 83f.

Very happy with what I've achieved relative to the degree of natural ability I've got, although I'm in awe of just how good the really good 50, 55 and 60 year olds are.

Had been really pleased with recent training - so of which I could hardly believe - and since I'm totally isolated from any other masters, had me wondering what the training sessions compared to.

Thanks again for all the answers!

Hi AK-55,

I'd love to be able to run the 5/10k times (and couldn't dream of getting near the half marathon).

I tend to find track work fairly comfortable, but the long steady runs the biggest challenge. I've done 10 x 200m(200m jog recovery) in 33 down to 31 sec., but have to be very careful not to wreck myself by running a 90 min run too hard.

I'd probably be more of 1500m/3000m runner that a 5/10k guy if I lived in an area where you could race the shorter distances. I did run a 37:06 10k a couple of years back, but definitely not my strength!

Welcome Cavorty! Glad you are getting some good feedback already. Those are some pretty stout workouts that you posted. I agree with what the are posting. Maybe I missed it, but what does a typical week of training look like for you? I'll look forward to hearing how your fitness goes. You've definitely still got some wheels!

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Week 98

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Hello fellow 50+ers. No words can express the sinking feeling I had from what unfolded in Boston this week. I won't try to make sense of it here (mostly because I can't), and simply offer my prayers and sympathies to all affected by the tragedy.

It'll be quick this morning, as I'm back in Memphis, TN (visiting wife's father, who is back in the hospital due to complications with the stint they had put in.)

Still suffering from some upper respiratory crud, so I'm kind of in maintenance mode until I can get through this. It's been three weeks now! The couple of storms that have cleared out the air have helped, but there is just a lot of backed-up stuff....it might have morphed into a mild case of bronchitis....if it doesn't clear up in the next few days, I'll probably go have it checked out. As such, just 28+ miles for the week with one workout. Here's my week:

Sun: 5 w/1@5:53 +post-run

Mon: 6 easy + post-run + upper

Tue: 0, too busy!

Wed: 6 w/8x(1 lap 80s avg, 1/2 lap 51s avg) & 5 straightaway strides (hard w/high knees, high kick)

Thur: 5.3 easy

Fri: 0 drove most the day, then visited once we got here.

Sat: 6.1 easy-ish (up and down the Mississippi Riverfront)

Comments:

Nothing much to comment. Sunday, I wanted to throw a couple faster miles in, but congestion made breathing hard, so I bailed on the second hard mile still finished it in 6:20, but it was a losing effort).

Wednesday I took a little off the pace of the 1 lap (4.5-5s short of a quarter, as you recall) from last week, but shortened the recovery even more, so I think this was a better work-out than last week.

Bottom line is that the whole week was still pretty minimal maintenance for me; hope things clear up soon!

Thinking about Ken. Hope things are going well post-procedure. Look forward to an update. Godspeed!

OK. I'm off for a short run this morning, then back to the hospital, then driving back to Lexington.

I will especially look forward to hearing the positivity that emanates from this thread. Been feeling a lot of negative vibes this week, so this is a welcome respite to visit with you all on this thread.

Thanks for being here, and best wishes to all!

Hi LucKY2b,

Below are three weeks at the end of February/start of March, when preparing for a target race (then had an easy week, and getting ready for 10k the second week in May).

These are exactly as e-mailed by to coach at McMillan. Pretty typical of what I've been doing, only difference is that in this period there wasn't a planned 90 min run, which I generally do ever other week (actually managed 100 min yesterday).

The big improvement (or at least managing not to get slower since late 40s) is, I think, down to McMillan getting me to do more aerobic work, and to back off maximal training on reps (I'd basically run track work to "collapse afterwards and crawl to car" effort).

My long-term aim is 2k s/c when I turn 60. I did the s/c a couple of times at 46 and 51, but am too much of a "short-arse" to get over 3 ft these days.

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Sat 23 - 2 x 1.5 miles with 7 mins recovery (5k pace) - target sub 8:30 (17:40 pace) - actually 8:26 and 8:17 (average 17:24 pace).

Sun 24 - 30 min easy

Mon 25 - 45 min recovery run

Tue 26 - Tempo intervals - 4 x 1.5 miles with 3 min recovery + 4 x 100m - 9:01, 9:01; 9:00; 9:00 (roughly 37:30 -10k pace, which is just inside "calculator pace" but would also be an age-graded lifetime pr if I run one this spring - this doesn't look a lot different than Greg's 10k test 3 x 2 miles with recovery at 40% of run time (at 6:00 per mlle), and this is 4 x 1.5 miles with recovery at 33% of run time). Must be encouraging from a strength standpoint.

Wed 27 - 30 min easy (this was down as 40 min easy, but felt a little tired, so as this was a "low end of mileage, or take an extra day off a week, I thought the 10 minutes less wouldn't be big deal. With the 25 x 200m the previous Thursday, I'd had three track session in the previous six days).

Thur 28 - 6 x 300m with 400m recovery in 2:15 - aim was 52secs. Went 52, 52, 52, 52, 52, 51. Recovery good, just a bit rusty at sustained running at this pace (a bit like first 800m pace session after coming off x-country). This was fine from the physiological standpoint, but initially thought I should have felt more "relaxation at speed." Checking age grading, though, I discovered they were quicker than I thought - equal to 42/43 second for an open age runner (so like a 1:53 guy). If I was training for an 800m, I think the "feel" would soon come. I do seem to have physiologically shifted to 5k side of the scale a bit, as I can't go quick enough to get a real lactic "burn." It's bit different from years ago when I could cruise at 800m speed, but would get massive oxygen debt (gave myself such a splitting headache from oxygen debt doing 4 x 300m with a 400m hurdler, that I couldn't drive home afterwards).

Fri 1 - Off. Actually jogged a couple of miles with the dogs. Felt fine.

Sat 2 - 75 min run with last 20 min at half marathon pace. This went very well. Pulse rate seems to stay sub-120 at steady run pace. Gradually picked up tempo on last 20 min, probably closing in on 6:00 pace in the last mile. Actually ended up with nearer 98 min, as jogged a walk with the dogs straight after (effectively a warm-down). Felt fine, really didn't feel like I was getting tired even at the end of 98 min.

Sun 3 - 40 min easy recovery run

Mon 4 - 40 min recovery run

Tue 5 - 55 min fast finish run - last 1780m in 6:02 (about 5:28 mile, but on undulating road/gravel road). Took this pretty easy for first half, but finished up very strongly.

Wed 6 - 40 min easy

Thur 7 - 4 x 1000m with 3 min recovery at 3k pace - 3:19; 3:19; 3:20; 3:12 - average 3:17.5 or 9:52 pace. Felt good.

Fri 8 - Off

Sat - 9 - Two mile time trial at 5k pace - 11:12 (5:37/5:35) very comfortably.

Sun - 10 - 30 minutes easy. Felt fine.

Mon - 11 - 40 min easy. Felt fine.

Tue - 12 - 8 x 200m with 200m jog recovery, aiming for 90% of top speed (on m/per sec basis, if I can run 30 flat, that's 33). 33; 33; 33; 32; 33; 32; 33; 31 - recovery good, strength good, feels like have to keep working all the way to the line on these. Wind dead against on straight on the odd-numbered ones.

Wed - 13 - 30 min easy. Fine.

Thur - 14 - 10 x 1 min at under 5k pace, with 1 1/2 min recovery jog. No idea what speed these were, but felt fine.

Fri - 15 - Off (actually couple of miles jog with dogs). Physio to get any knots out, etc., but with enough time not too have deleterious effects by race day (as you probably know, it beats the legs up for a day or too!).

Sat - 16 - 60 min fast finish run, last 5 min at under 5k pace (actually last 1780m - under 6 min, about 5:19 for a mile). This was a bit like the 4 x 1000m and the 2 mile time trial, something of a surprise. Wasn't particularly psyched up - actually rather sleepy - and had a few leg sore spots from the deep tissue work the previous day. Didn't start off particularly quickly, and wasn't conscious of pushing, but must have been traveling quite quickly at some point, as I noticed that it was awfully quick with about a minute to go, so basically stopped trying at that point. Still ended up a fair way quicker that I've done on this course before (there was a bit of a following wind some of the way). Really didn't feel it from a breathing standpoint - was able to start jogging again about two strides after the finish - and if I felt anything, it was a bit of soreness from the deep tissue digging the day before. Felt fine today (Sunday).

It was a good week of training where I bumped it up a notch, from 15 to 16 miles. On "granddaughter watch" as my 3rd granddaughter is due any day. We had Frank Shorter, Bill Rogers, and Bart Yasso in town for our hilly marathon. That was cool. They are superb ambassadors to the sport, just great, great guys. Somehow they made all the awfulness of Boston seem a little better just to see them. I stood at the the top hill at mile 19, high 5'ed people and handed out Chocolate Outrage gu to a very select few (that stuff is expensive!). My sometimes training partner took 4th woman overall. I say "sometimes" because I can't keep up right now; but I'm workin on it.

POD :)

Hi all, another week gone by. Great to see the working being put in by folks here. It helps motivate me at least.

Sun: 2hrs with last 15mins at 85% HR

Mon: 60mins very easy + 10 x short hills sprints,

Tues: 3mile tempo(18.40)(HR 90%), 5min jog, 6 x 50sec hills; pm 6km easy jog

Wed: 20km easy

Thurs: am 6km easy jog, pm "quarters" (dnf'd after 6 reps - more below on that)

Fri: 60mins easy plus 8 x short hill sprints

Sat: 15mins easy, then a 10km progression in 41mins.

I was happy with Tuesday workout as I felt like a runner again. Still slow (for me) however its progress at least.

Thursday hit me with a thud. To paraphrase a line from 30 Rock, I approached the workout with the confidence of a much younger (or at least fitter) man. Followed the grp through the first 200 float in 47, the 1st 400 in 81 - it got very ugly after that with an 85, and out to 89 before I stepped off in disgust. Stupidity. This classic (for the system I was raised on) Thursday session is getting the better of me. I always found the 8 x 400m with a 200 float the toughest workout of the week "back in the day" - haunts me still.

Strange weather this week - 23C in short and vest on the track on Thursday night... by Saturday back in tights and jacket with rain some light snow falling... go figure.

Have a good week to you all.

Week 98: 8 hours 43 minutes in 9 runs, 2 of them workouts:Thu 1 hr 29 mins with 3x hill repeats.Sat 2 hr 9 mins with 4x hill repeats.Supposed to be doing 800m interval workouts midweek, but I held back due to the big toe issues (different issue left/right). Thursday's hill workout was just a test, the left big toe was a little angry about it. Not sure if I will do intervals this week, maybe try on the track instead of the roads, maybe just do hills instead, maybe just run easy. The right big toe is the real concern. I'm in the taper now so the focus is just getting to the starting line with no niggles. Race is the Flying Pig, 5th May.

alf tupper wrote:

My hill work (h)as moved on I am now able to pick up and sprint at the end of each effort not just grind it out.

My idea of hills is "speedwork in disguise". Alf's idea is to rip the mask off.

lucKY2b wrote:

Welcome Cavorty! Glad you are getting some good feedback already. Those are some pretty stout workouts that you posted. I agree with what the are posting. ...

Yeah, his times are so stellar I was wondering if he was actually a troll. Anyway, he asked for feedback from good 3k/5k runners, so that leaves me out.

This turned out to be a very satisfactory week for me. I got in another 50 mile week. Tuesday I ran my 18x:30hard/:30 easy workout up my 2 mile hill. This morning I ran a flat local 5k to see if I was doing better than when I ran my very ugly 20:45 5k 3 weeks ago. This was much improved. I ran 19:38 this morning. Now, I just need to get the mileage up to 60 and keep building in the workouts, and I will be ready for some track races in June.

50 weeks of running first 6 months 20 minutes per day then I went a little nutz but backed off and ran 30 minutes per day now I am ready to go a little nutz again especially since the old PFs are finally cured(fingers crossed).

April 14th Effort 7 12:57 plus 6 minutes to recovery on 148th

so previous best was 13:22 6:10 to 6 flat pace

April 15th Effort 5 powell butte hill no fast twitch effort just steady about 16 minutes

April 16th Effort 5 First longer run 10 minutes warmup 31 2 loops of Glendoveer 2nd loop was slower at same HR . HR was 75% felt like an easy pace.Felt the extra time so probably a good training effect but need to be cautious

April 17th,18h,19th Effort 1,1,1. The level 1 effort is about 60 percent of MHR karvonen probably about 8 min miles but not really sure.

April 20th Effort between 3 and 4 or 70 to 75 percent MHR

Start of new week:

April 21st Effort 7 2 miles at 6:20 then onto the track kinda strange it has been a long time anyhow did 2 100 at what I figured was about right for a safe venture 19 , 20 okee dokee so did a 1600 79,84,87,83 5:33 probably could run 5:20 all out so this is progress. The form change is taking less effort to maintain. PFs are fine. Very happy with this test.

Onward

Cavorty- from your info it is pretty clear to me that you are naturally an 800/1500 type. If you move to Seattle or Willamette areas you will find plenty of all comer's meets in which to test your wheels at these distances. From your training I would expect you to quickly dip under 5:00 for the mile or 2:15 for 800, which is world class for 55+.

Hi B-Sample,

All being well, moving to Florence, Oregon in the fall. Brother-in-law lives in Eugene, so I hope to be able to find some track races.

I haven't run a mile race for years. I did do a 1500m on the track about three years ago (first one for 20+ years), which was only a couple of days after a 5000m. Ended up with 4:42, the 5000m catching up with me in the last 150m.

I'd agree, I would be more a 800/1500m type if I trained for it, but where I live currently, there are no races for me at those distances, so if I do 5ks, I can at least do some local road-races.

Definitely not a troll. I have run competitively since I was 13/14 and never had more than a few weeks off through injury. I was only an OK club track runner in England, but I guess because I never stopped training with a fair intensity, I haven't slowed down as much as I expected with age.

The McMillan training got me on to a much bigger aerobic base, although it's taken me about three years to learn to handle a 90 min run. It's really since I managed to adapt to that the faster work has gone to a new level.

That what was had me wondering if I was just fantasizing or whether my training was getting somewhere what the better guys in the age group do.

I'm planning to join an Oregon or North West area club when I move out, so might have people to run with from time to time!

Charlie wrote:

... now I am ready to go a little nutz again especially since the old PFs are finally cured(fingers crossed).

Once with PF, always with PF. Just hibernating for now. Can be kept at bay if we make no mistakes, but that's not the same as cured.

Bad week in more ways than one. 34 miles, no workouts

SUN- 8.5 @ 8:44 pace

MON- 6 easy w/o watch, then a mile w/ daughter who is rehabing a stress fracture

TUE- 3 easy w/ wife

WED- 5 @ 7:30 pace

THR- 11.8 @9:00 pace

FRI- scheduled off

SAT- big fat zero

3rd week in April is my favorite week of the year. It starts with Marathon Monday and always includes my birthday. Unfortunately this year was pretty bad... youngest kid sick and missing school, I didn't feel well myself and made a visit to the doc, and idiots in Boston really screwed up my running week. Add to that the 1/2 marathon last Saturday took more out of me than I first thought.

Monday AM we had a nice gathering, watched the marathon and tracked friends online. Monday PM we made sure those same friends were OK. Wednesday my local running shop hosted a special event at the weekly group run to honor those whos lives were shortened and disrupted in Boston. Thursday night and into early Friday morning I watched way too much CNN. Friday I made it to birthday #52.

On a positive note, my 17yo daughter is able to run again after suffering a stress fracture at the beginning of outdoor track. That kid has potential but just can't stay healthy for back-to-back seasons.

Welcome Cavorty!

Get well Lucky. And a quick recovery for your wife's dad also.

AK-55, if you are less that average at 17/36/1:20, I should take up chess or knitting or something safe. Keep it up.

Still cheering for Ken.

Keep running y'all,

Edgewood

Spent the last two weeks rehabing the hamstring. Pain was mostly gone so I went 8 on Saturday. I should have gone 6. I was running comfortably around 7:00/pace when tightness showed up around 6.5; ended up jogging the last mile. Ham pretty sore yesterday...More laser treatments this week.

But, I had a very satisfying race last weekend. Ran with my 24 y/o daughter in a local 5K. Paced her perfectly to PR of 26:05!(8:31-8:23-8:15) Won her AG for the first time ever. It was great being part of her happiness!

I need to be more cautious this week, even when things start feeling better. Just stick with 3-4-5 milers even if I feel good.

Have a good week everyone!

Dave

What a horrible day we had, and yet there was good to see. To see so many people rush to assst the wounded, and save lives. To so quickly pinpoint the two perps before they inflicted that much, or more, carnage again (though we had the horrible dangers of the NY Post posting pics of the wrong people, thanks Mr. Murdoch).

Thinking about ways to stand up to that level of hatred and violence, and wanting to be in Boston next year, I made the commitment to enter the Des Moines Marathon after hearing the memorial speech President Obama gave. I have six months to prepare. A BQ time for me now is 1 hour slower than my PR from 29-30 years ago, should make for an interesting summer of training, esp. here in the hot midwest.

As to training, ran my longest run in 6 months or more yesterday, of 13 miles in 2:00:34. The last 3 miles were on the track while my wife did strides, sure did help these old legs, watching here and getting that nice track forgiveness. Tomorrow we go to Des Moines for the Grand Blue Mile, will see how I recover. It's supposed to be only 40 degrees, and rainy to snowy conditions, just ideal mile weather, right?

Alan Bennet wrote:

Charlie wrote:

... now I am ready to go a little nutz again especially since the old PFs are finally cured(fingers crossed).

Once with PF, always with PF. Just hibernating for now. Can be kept at bay if we make no mistakes, but that's not the same as cured.

Alan thanks for your perspective on chronic issues.

It inspired me to go into detail as to what I am doing to keep the PFs working correctly.

Specifics I use to keep a weak link from break, PF :

1. Warmup walking preferably barefoot on softsurface

2. Warmup range of running motion for knees and ankles

3. Warmup running 10 minutes running range of motion for muscles around trees across uneven ground figure eights. I call this squirrel running

4. Shoes that promote mid foot strike and support arch

5. No Over Striding which creates an impact SPIKE on landing which is why I suspect my PF connection at heal has been permanently weakened. Running form at all speeds landing with foot at COM center of mass no overstriding pushing off with hips not pushing off with lower legs. Lower legs are visualized as being like streched rubber bands at push off so on landing the lower leg is relaxed so it can stretch out storing energy the hips to the powerful pushoff.

6. Running on softsurface.

7.Cool down at least 10 minutes of barefoot walking on soft surface.

btw

I also used to have sciatica and have kept that from coming back for over 12 years. However if I fail to do the routines that worked for preventing a return of sciatica it comes back . A small price to pay.

Last week I started treating my supposed post-stress-fracture issues the same as PF and since my symptoms were so similar to PF. The fracture should have healed long ago but the pain smelled like PF. I'm doing some of what you are doing but a few other things have helped a lot. I know we could do a whole 1000 post thread on PF but here's my list:

1) Warm up more slowly

2) Same as 4 above.

3) Same as 5 above even though I feel like Marvin Martian with my little steps

4) Ice the hot spot right after the run.

5) 25X2 heel drops on the lowest step. This seems to help the most.

6) Ibuprofen at night (temporarily- as I know of studies showed ibuprofen can actually slow healing). I use it to get the inflammation down.

I like to call all the little injuries just waiting to pounce "sub-chronic" issues. Things to be aware of and certainly not ignore or......they'll come back and get ya!