also, I imagine most scenarios involving public figures being subjected to libel or slander are instead settled out of court rather than going to court.
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10
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Oh? wrote:
agip wrote:
eeeeehhhh ok I'll concede the point, but the below does sound like two snapshots. But I'll retract if you insist it is not. Not a big point.
You:
but considering lower taxes, and improved wages vs. inflation, the economy under Trump was doing slightly better than it was under Obama while the same cannot be said for Biden compared to Trump.
It's two snapshots because you're only talking about one facet of the economy while I'm talking about why it's important to look at a more important aspect while agreeing with you that one particular aspect (improvement in the unemployment rate) did indeed continue trends from Obama to Trump and Trump to Biden.
Wages improved at a faster rate under Trump than they were under Obama. Meanwhile, taxes were lower. The result: people had more money under Trump than they had under Obama. The opposite is true for Biden.
The part where the economy continued the same trends is simply unemployment: trends in unemployment during the post-Great Recession recovery under Obama's administration continued under Trump, and trends in unemployment during the post-COVID lockdown recovery under Trump continued under Biden.
That's the important part you're missing in this discussion: unemployment trends continued in both cases, but unemployment isn't a complete or even adequate summary of the economy. Median wages is the best comparison if you're using a single factor, but I used average wages because that's the most readily available (though Biden does better with average wages compared to median wages because minimum wage is higher under Biden). When looking at median, or in this case average, wages ... wages under Trump grew slightly faster than they grew under Obama (in addition to lower taxes) after compensating for inflation, while they have gone down under Biden.
That's a clear difference, and that's why Biden's economy isn't doing great even though unemployment has continued it's recovery trends while the same isn't true for what happened under Trump.
I may read your post more carefully later but I have to go now.
As an option to being so granular maybe we can just look at a big simple number: inflation-adjusted disposable income. That takes inflation and taxes out of the equation.
Disposable income is a pretty good proxy, yes? As is consumption, which many feel is way more accurate than 'income' because so much of our wages is healthcare instead of dollars these days.
Anyway, if you accept 'inflation adusted disposable income' to be a great measure, it's a smooth ride obama-trump. Just a trend upwards, continuing.
Except for what looks like a statistical change in Jan 2013. Not sure what that is.
good talk.
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Oh? wrote:
agip wrote:
eeeeehhhh ok I'll concede the point, but the below does sound like two snapshots. But I'll retract if you insist it is not. Not a big point.
You:
but considering lower taxes, and improved wages vs. inflation, the economy under Trump was doing slightly better than it was under Obama while the same cannot be said for Biden compared to Trump.
It's two snapshots because you're only talking about one facet of the economy while I'm talking about why it's important to look at a more important aspect while agreeing with you that one particular aspect (improvement in the unemployment rate) did indeed continue trends from Obama to Trump and Trump to Biden.
Wages improved at a faster rate under Trump than they were under Obama. Meanwhile, taxes were lower. The result: people had more money under Trump than they had under Obama. The opposite is true for Biden.
The part where the economy continued the same trends is simply unemployment: trends in unemployment during the post-Great Recession recovery under Obama's administration continued under Trump, and trends in unemployment during the post-COVID lockdown recovery under Trump continued under Biden.
That's the important part you're missing in this discussion: unemployment trends continued in both cases, but unemployment isn't a complete or even adequate summary of the economy. Median wages is the best comparison if you're using a single factor, but I used average wages because that's the most readily available (though Biden does better with average wages compared to median wages because minimum wage is higher under Biden). When looking at median, or in this case average, wages ... wages under Trump grew slightly faster than they grew under Obama (in addition to lower taxes) after compensating for inflation, while they have gone down under Biden.
That's a clear difference, and that's why Biden's economy isn't doing great even though unemployment has continued it's recovery trends while the same isn't true for what happened under Trump.
The labor force participation rate was higher under Trump than it was at any point in Obama's presidency or Biden's presidency other than 2009 despite the baby boomers retiring in droves.
Unemployment under Obama never got below like 4.7% despite a lower labor force participation rate.
Under Trump the average unemployment in 2017 was 4.1%, in 2018 it was 3.9%, in 2019 it was 3.6%. In February 2020 it was 3.5%.
Obama started at rock bottom and led the slowest recovery in US history. The economy literally would have recovered faster after the 2008 crash if you replaced Obama with a lava lamp. Doing literally NOTHING would have been more effective than Obama was.
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I believe that Biden is the worst president of my lifetime. I find him arrogant and annoying. His enabling parenting caused tremendous apparent conflicts of interest and fears of influence peddling. I think it would be disastrous for him to run in 2024 and I fear that we will choosing between two inadequate candidates again in that election.
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Disposable income rather than wages (both accounting for inflation) is probably a fine substitute... it would certainly be a more agreeable point of comparison than using unemployment rates to gauge economic performance.
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TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
Oh? wrote:
It's two snapshots because you're only talking about one facet of the economy while I'm talking about why it's important to look at a more important aspect while agreeing with you that one particular aspect (improvement in the unemployment rate) did indeed continue trends from Obama to Trump and Trump to Biden.
Wages improved at a faster rate under Trump than they were under Obama. Meanwhile, taxes were lower. The result: people had more money under Trump than they had under Obama. The opposite is true for Biden.
The part where the economy continued the same trends is simply unemployment: trends in unemployment during the post-Great Recession recovery under Obama's administration continued under Trump, and trends in unemployment during the post-COVID lockdown recovery under Trump continued under Biden.
That's the important part you're missing in this discussion: unemployment trends continued in both cases, but unemployment isn't a complete or even adequate summary of the economy. Median wages is the best comparison if you're using a single factor, but I used average wages because that's the most readily available (though Biden does better with average wages compared to median wages because minimum wage is higher under Biden). When looking at median, or in this case average, wages ... wages under Trump grew slightly faster than they grew under Obama (in addition to lower taxes) after compensating for inflation, while they have gone down under Biden.
That's a clear difference, and that's why Biden's economy isn't doing great even though unemployment has continued it's recovery trends while the same isn't true for what happened under Trump.
The labor force participation rate was higher under Trump than it was at any point in Obama's presidency or Biden's presidency other than 2009 despite the baby boomers retiring in droves.
Unemployment under Obama never got below like 4.7% despite a lower labor force participation rate.
Under Trump the average unemployment in 2017 was 4.1%, in 2018 it was 3.9%, in 2019 it was 3.6%. In February 2020 it was 3.5%.
Obama started at rock bottom and led the slowest recovery in US history. The economy literally would have recovered faster after the 2008 crash if you replaced Obama with a lava lamp. Doing literally NOTHING would have been more effective than Obama was.
I'm not arguing the economy was great under Obama (or Trump). But clearly, when you look at what was happening, the trends that began under Obama mostly continued under Trump -- specifically, unemployment. Wages increased a little faster under Trump, but it wasn't by a huge amount (it's probably arguable if it was a significant enough difference to matter in this conversation -- I'll probably continue to say it was slight but significant enough to consider, while agip will probably disagree and say the difference is too insignificant to say it wasn't a continuation of the trend). If you do argue that there isn't a big difference between Trump and Obama in terms of wages, then you might have to argue the same between Bush and Obama... but that's for another conversation that doesn't seem at all relevant to this thread.
The worst parts of Obama's economy, though, was IMO the disparity between urban vs. suburban vs. rural situations (which was a large part of what got Trump elected in 2016) and the continued reduction of the middle class. But this isn't a thread on Obama ... this is a thread on Biden, and the specific topic being discussed is how Biden's economy might have continued the trends of recovery under Trump in some aspects (re: unemployment rate), it has struggled in others (inflation, wages) to the point where it is demonstrably worse, and calling it a "good" economy and giving credit to Biden for being responsible for having a "good economy" isn't appropriate: it's not a particularly "good" economy, though it is recovering, and the worst parts of the economy are strongly tied to Biden (re: inflation, and the value of earned wages).
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President Trump was the most accessible president in American history.
Meanwhile, Joe Biden hasn't done a press interview in 114 days.32 -
Real Obvi wrote:
agip wrote:
just glancing through the handles- looks like usually 18/20 posts are from the mag'as.
is that fun ? . . .
It's just Bill's law, agip.
Bill's Law: As an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the percentage of posts that are made by nutcases approaches 100%.
So.....maybe us non-Trumpers should feel silly for not just letting it get to the inevitable 100% a lot sooner ??
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nonequals wrote:
Real Obvi wrote:
It's just Bill's law, agip.
Bill's Law: As an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the percentage of posts that are made by nutcases approaches 100%.
So.....maybe us non-Trumpers should feel silly for not just letting it get to the inevitable 100% a lot sooner ??
It never actually gets to 100% because there are always delusionals like yourself who can't understand when they've lost an argument so decisively that there's nothing left to say.
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TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
nonequals wrote:
So.....maybe us non-Trumpers should feel silly for not just letting it get to the inevitable 100% a lot sooner ??
It never actually gets to 100% because there are always delusionals like yourself who can't understand when they've lost an argument so decisively that there's nothing left to say.
Briefly breaking my rule: How are the recounts and lawsuits going, Mr. Decisive? You and Dinesh and Mike got it on track, yet?
I know, it takes time. And " just personality." And 2 more weeks. And 5 more days....
That's what decisive victory looks like, eh?
You' re both an a***** and a intellectual joke.
I'll go BACK to observing my rule, now....
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But, but... his emails.
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nonequals wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
It never actually gets to 100% because there are always delusionals like yourself who can't understand when they've lost an argument so decisively that there's nothing left to say.
Briefly breaking my rule: How are the recounts and lawsuits going, Mr. Decisive? You and Dinesh and Mike got it on track, yet?
I know, it takes time. And " just personality." And 2 more weeks. And 5 more days....
That's what decisive victory looks like, eh?
You' re both an a***** and a intellectual joke.
I'll go BACK to observing my rule, now....
Says the "conservative" who thinks Joe Biden is doing a great job.
You're the poster child for "a*****s" and you would be hard pressed to outwit most hamsters.
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H ambo wrote:
agip wrote:
well ok fair, but we can't just pretend COVID didn't happen. it was and is a major, world shaking event that changed almost everything economic in the country. That we are even close to getting back to normal so soon is a great testament to the US system and Dem policies.
In other words, the recovery has been very strong and Joe deserves credit for its successes.
But what does nonequals have to say. Wink wink nudge nudge 😂😂😂😂😂
Two thoughts:
1) To the non-discerning (like you), Trumpism might have made the left-leaning look a bit more like non-moran conservatives. Because both groups realize that Trumpism is a far bigger threat than most or all of the other things that we might normally disagree about. So, to you, agip and I look the same. Dumb.
2) I know enough NOT to argue about most current events with people who can't EVEN agree on infinitely less-nuanced things like, "Trump lost election." And, "Trump tried to steal election." And, "Trump bad human being." And, "Biden not leftist anti-Christ." And, perhaps...."Sun rises in morning."
In that respect, and with all due respect to agip, not only am I not agip, but I might be a LITTLE smarter than him....
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nonequals wrote:
H ambo wrote:
But what does nonequals have to say. Wink wink nudge nudge 😂😂😂😂😂
Two thoughts:
1) To the non-discerning (like you), Trumpism might have made the left-leaning look a bit more like non-moran conservatives. Because both groups realize that Trumpism is a far bigger threat than most or all of the other things that we might normally disagree about. So, to you, agip and I look the same. Dumb.
2) I know enough NOT to argue about most current events with people who can't EVEN agree on infinitely less-nuanced things like, "Trump lost election." And, "Trump tried to steal election." And, "Trump bad human being." And, "Biden not leftist anti-Christ." And, perhaps...."Sun rises in morning."
In that respect, and with all due respect to agip, not only am I not agip, but I might be a LITTLE smarter than him....
You're a "conservative" who voted for Joe Biden.
There isn't anyone on less than 4 legs you're smarter than except maybe David Frum.
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TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
nonequals wrote:
Briefly breaking my rule: How are the recounts and lawsuits going, Mr. Decisive? You and Dinesh and Mike got it on track, yet?
I know, it takes time. And " just personality." And 2 more weeks. And 5 more days....
That's what decisive victory looks like, eh?
You' re both an a***** and a intellectual joke.
I'll go BACK to observing my rule, now....
Says the "conservative" who thinks Joe Biden is doing a great job.
You're the poster child for "a*****s" and you would be hard pressed to outwit most hamsters.
Could an a***** like you just TRY to occasionally honestly discuss things? Probably THE closest I've ever gotten to saying that Biden is doing a "great job" is heavily implying that he's NOT a leftist anti-christ. But you and the other Trumpers are utterly incapable of intellectually handling the SMALLEST bit of nuance, or gray area, or anything else non-binary. So, you childishly have to say that anyone who sees Trump and Trumpism and the current R party for what it is are "Biden Lovers." Lame as hell. You're only capable of seeing TWO camps in this world. Yours, and the enemy's. Just like Donny tells you to. So dumb, so pathetic.
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21
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nonequals wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
Says the "conservative" who thinks Joe Biden is doing a great job.
You're the poster child for "a*****s" and you would be hard pressed to outwit most hamsters.
Could an a***** like you just TRY to occasionally honestly discuss things? Probably THE closest I've ever gotten to saying that Biden is doing a "great job" is heavily implying that he's NOT a leftist anti-christ. But you and the other Trumpers are utterly incapable of intellectually handling the SMALLEST bit of nuance, or gray area, or anything else non-binary. So, you childishly have to say that anyone who sees Trump and Trumpism and the current R party for what it is are "Biden Lovers." Lame as hell. You're only capable of seeing TWO camps in this world. Yours, and the enemy's. Just like Donny tells you to. So dumb, so pathetic.
You voted for him. You endorsed everything he's doing with your vote you ignorant clown.
I'm not a conservative or a Republican. I'm just one of the 70% of Americans who understand Biden is an absolute disaster and that the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of imbeciles like yourself.
You're a vegan who ordered a raw steak for dinner and you think other people's lack of nuance is the issue... LOL!
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And STILL President of the United States wrote:
Swampy swamp creatures.
Good morning folks 😏
Good morning!
November is going to be GLORIOUS!
There isn't enough fraud and morons like nonequals in the world to stop what's coming for you.
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nonequals wrote:
Real Obvi wrote:
It's just Bill's law, agip.
Bill's Law: As an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the percentage of posts that are made by nutcases approaches 100%.
So.....maybe us non-Trumpers should feel silly for not just letting it get to the inevitable 100% a lot sooner ??
Here is my question why is it that if you dislike Biden the assumption is you are a Trump supporter? I have never once stated I am Trump supporter; I just think Biden is unfit to be president. I think his lack of qualification has been displayed over his political career which is longer than I have been alive. My reasoning is to be the President you must possess
incredible leadership ability and he does not possess the leadership requirements at all. This can be displayed in several of his actions. 1.) he bad mouths previous leadership to the public that is very unprofessional and weak, 2.) he has selected a very underqualified cabinet (For example sorry a transgender does not belong as the secretary of health I don't care what your argument is they should have been disqualified when they altered their biological function, why not make someone with schizophrenia as the secretary of mental health), 3.) he has referred to everyone who opposes him as a racist. I can go on but most of you that support him don't get it.52 -
Why do you liberals get triggered by "Christian Nationalism"? Twitter is all abuzz with lefties throwing hissy fits over MTG's video.
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