Race wants prize money back

runnernova wrote:

rtsrtsdghsd wrote:

No, it is not considered bad form to accept prize money at a charity race. Where do people come up with stuff like this?

gotta agree with rick - maybe he's in nova too. if a charity is the major sponsor and they give out something that can benefit the charity (money, gift cards, etc) then we always give it back. kind of an unwritten rule.

I have never heard of this unspoken rule. And even though this was not my first time winning money I am by no means a seasoned road/beach racer.

All I can say is when handing out the checks there were no subtle hints or comments that might indicate that the race would like the prize winners to donate the money back to the charity.

Did some digging around and this charity looks a little shady, to say the least.

I think that the threat of a letter to the IRS would go a long way to get the RD to stop harassing you.

And don't give the money back under no circumstance. They got you to race under false pretenses, I'm sure you wouldn't be doing this $hit race if the prize-money was half of what you got.

If you look at the unaltered 2015 website:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150520052654/http://surfingmadonnarun.org/awards-divisions

...and compare to the 2014 website:

https://web.archive.org/web/20141030040816/http://surfingmadonnarun.org/awards-divisions/

...you can see that the wording is almost identical but, plausably, the intended meaning is markedly different. $15K total purse for 2015 supports the RD's claimed interpretation. $22K total purse for 2014 supports a more conventional interpretation, assuming $6K is intended for the volleyball prizes. Eg. in 2014 "10K PRIZE MONEY: MALE & FEMALE 1ST PLACE – $1,400" meant the overall male & female winners each got $1400, but in 2015 "10K total prize money: Overall Male & Female 1ST PLACE – $1600" means that the overall male & female winners should split the $1600 between the two of them by some unspecified manner. The insertion of the word "total" does not change the meaning of the words from the claimed 2014 meaning to the claimed 2015 meaning. It is simply factually incorrect since the "total" does not include the age group prizes.

Extending the RD's claim that the prize winners should have summed all of the prizes and checked that they matched the advertised total purse, should the 2014 5th place costume team have queried their $100 check because they noticed the $50 discrepancy between the announced total purse and the sum of the individual prizes? Perhaps they stole $50! (using the RD's definition of stealing)

I can appreciate that an unexpected ~$9000 hole in the finances of a small charity really stings for the people who invest their time working at it. But threatening legal action over a few hundred dollars each from a bunch of honest runners weeks after the fact is poor behavior and actually engaging in legal action would, I imagine, be foolhardy and counter-productive. Instead, they should learn from their mistake and fix the wording on their website so that it is clear and unambiguous to all INCLUDING, critically, THEMSELVES.

This is all pretty sad. If it were me I'd donate the money directly to one of the charities they support, since I can afford it and don't like rewarding poor behavior.

again because I forget. What difference does it make if I'm registered or not? Am I not allowed to speak my mind? Have my posts been rude? Even if I was registered you still would have no idea who I am.

Convince me why my being a registered member would make you/others take my post most seriously, then perhaps I'll consider it. In the mean time some of you could maybe consider stopping with the back handed compliments and the snarky retorts. I don't believe I've treated any of my detractors the way some have responded to me.

Just say'n.

d2xccoach wrote:

You (or they) want a measure of credibility, register your handle(s). Or not, since the board doesn't require one, but if you don't expect to get called out. I've been posting on here for 15 years, same user name, and I almost always post my email too. I take responsibility for what I post. So Brojos, prove me wrong!!! Or not, as the case may be.

You are still anonymous whether or not your handle is registered. Or do you not understand that. (I'm wrong, of course, if your real name is d2xcoach).

OP, if you do end up giving any of the money back, make dang sure he changes the language on the website for next year (and not just in the small print like he did when he updated it yesterday.) If he doesn't, that's just deceptive advertising to try to get better competition/boost numbers, especially given everything that happened this year.

If the RD made an honest mistake/had poor communication skills, he's incompetent. (If the language was really as clear as he claims it was, he wouldn't have written the checks for the wrong amount. He had plenty of opportunities to catch his mistake way before now, which doesn't look good for him being entirely honest about everything.) He certainly should have approached you in a nicer, humbler way, although I'm sure he's under a lot of pressure and we don't always make the best decisions at times like that. If it was an honest mistake, the "right" thing to do would be to give the money back as you are able. What's right is right, even if the other person's wrong (or being a jerk.)

HOWEVER, if this was an intentional attempt by the race/RD to make up for a low profit margin, than far from you "stealing from the nonprofit," HE is literally stealing from you. If that was the case, caving in without ensuring future changes would only enable him to take advantage of others in the future.

At best, the RD is a guy who made a big mistake, didn't catch it, and isn't handling it well. At worst, he's potentially trying to extort money out of you and the other racers. If I were in your shoes, I would have a frank conversation with him over the phone and make sure you have a clearer picture of what's going on before you make your decision. It's tough deciding what to do when you don't know what his intentions were (so you have to balance helping someone who screwed up and looking out for future racers so they don't get cheated.)

OP. Keep the win. I'm sure LRC has your back.

If you want to give, give locally. Non-profit means nothing:

These non-profit pay themselves plenty:

https://www.charitywatch.org/top-charity-salaries

Does this non-profit provide a form 990?

Why don't you offer to volunteer at this race next year or any of their other races. Win-Win.

Wow looking at the 990 I'm really questioning this non profit. Barely any of the money coming in looks to be spent on grants and charitable work. A lot is categorized under other or goes to people in salaries, admin fees, etc. I don't have a ton of experience with non profits but someone who does is that normal. It seems like money they are bringing in is not being well utilized.

Also to all those suggesting the prize winners volunteer. I can't speak for the OP but for other prize winners I know have suggested this option to the race director and lets just say it has not been met well. This guy is not reasonable and has refused to see things from the other side.

I'm lucky when I prize money from this race last year this BS didn't happen to me. I hope the prize winners realize this guys threats are toothless and keep the money they earned.

Their revenue exceeded expenses by more than 67k in 2014, they can cover easily their "mistake". This "charity" is doing just fine and if they'd like to be a little more in the black Maybe B Nichols should actually donate his time to the charity

The only paid employees were the president and treasurer and they were paid 18,000 dollars (9000 each) last year. quick math says that about 175 a week for 60hours. That works to 40 hours at about $2.50 per hour for 40 hours and $3.75 overtime for 20 hours.

Why don't the employees "do the right thing" and donate that 18k back to the non profit, instead of "stealing" it away from valuable programs

sellingbackdoorofficesupplies? wrote:

The only paid employees were the president and treasurer and they were paid 18,000 dollars (9000 each) last year. quick math says that about 175 a week for 60hours.

It took 7500 hours (what they reported) to buy two floating wheelchairs, arrange for 10 sessions of surf lessons for disabled kids (lessons run by an existing surf camp), and make a trailer for rescued sea lions?

Saw whatever you want, but I bet entries next year in this will be to the sky with the publicity.

At least for the 10k Masters division.

Over 40 minutes for $250 bucks! I've never heard of such EZ money. The fact someone 52 won the 40-54 age group says everything.

Forget about the sand. The top guy ran 31 minutes. It didn't slow them down that much. It must have been hard packed.

sellingbackdoorofficesupplies? wrote:

The only paid employees were the president and treasurer and they were paid 18,000 dollars (9000 each) last year. quick math says that about 175 a week for 60hours. That works to 40 hours at about $2.50 per hour for 40 hours and $3.75 overtime for 20 hours.

that they couldn't volunteer their time if they were only making $2.50 an hour. Kind'a shows which way their charitably heart was beating. WTF!

backdoor, you're really claiming that they "worked" 60hrs a week, 52 weeks out of 52? gimme a friggin break man, what a joke. Yeah right. I appreciate that race directing is not inherently easy, but it's damn sure not a 60hr a week job for TWO people. get real dude.Oh, and to the OP, don't you dare return that money, you won that fair and square.FYI, the OP is a damn good dude, I've known him for years and he's a 100% class act. If i was a bigtime race director, I'd fly him in every damn year. He's the kind of guy who will come a couple days early and spend a day running around with kids at local schools (ala leo manzano), and he's just a stand up guy. no way in hell he deserves the SH** this RD douchebag is sending his way.

It's a damn shame wrote:

sellingbackdoorofficesupplies? wrote:

The only paid employees were the president and treasurer and they were paid 18,000 dollars (9000 each) last year. quick math says that about 175 a week for 60hours. That works to 40 hours at about $2.50 per hour for 40 hours and $3.75 overtime for 20 hours.

that they couldn't volunteer their time if they were only making $2.50 an hour. Kind'a shows which way their charitably heart was beating. WTF!

I guess the RD didn't have time to change the giant checks that he wrote out to everyone.

http://s11.postimg.org/u0iqbg8wj/image.png

I guess the RD didn't have time to change the giant checks that he wrote out to everyone.

http://s11.postimg.org/u0iqbg8wj/image.png