New Allegations- "Salazar had bag of needles"

17 people knowingly lying, eh? That seems reasonable to you? Magness making things up because it would somehow benefit him "financially and personally" somehow makes sense in your mind?

Unbelievable. I'm understanding if people are still willfully ignorant due to there not being anything conclusive to hang a hat on, but it is beyond the limits of sanity to think that every single person speaking out is lying, or to compare the Epstein story to the UVA rape story.

Herein lies the NOP fanboys biggest problem. Individually they can bat away each bit of evidence. He lied. It was for his allergies. His ex-wife says differently.

The problem is they need each of their rebuttals to be true for the whole thing to stand up.

Or to put it another way, if I rolled a die and you predicted 1, and it came up, I could say 'OK that was unlikely, but possible', but if you said to me I would roll the dice 17 times, and each time it would come up a 1 ... then suddenly you've entered the realms of the lottery. And thats the case here. They need the first thing to be true, then they need the 2nd thing to be true and so on. They need all their rebuttals to all be true and to hold up. There are far too many things coming out. All of a similar nature, for them all to be lies.

Poor old Nikes lawyers fees must be huge as they try and worm their way out of this one for poor old Salazar.

Lance had teammates admit to blood doping right alongside him. Huge difference.

Right now, we have 17 people associated (athletes or staff) with Rupp/Salazar that don't have a single lick of factual evidence that demonstrates Rupp himself was doping. That's 17 people who can't prove a damn thing outside of the fact that he may have taken allergy medication. And Alberto handed out Celebrex and perhaps asked Goucher to take a medication. Speaks more in favor of Salazar/Rupp.

At this point I am expecting Salazar to not say anything at all. Enough time passes and people quit making it such an issue. He isn't required to make a statement and I think he realizes it would only add fuel to the fire. If More agrees to stay and the USADA and WADA don't force him to produce it is actually best for him and his guys that he doesn't. Running is such a niche sport. This gets 10% at best of the national attention Lance's scandal got.

PL... wrote:

Right now, we have 17 people associated (athletes or staff) with Rupp/Salazar that don't have a single lick of factual evidence that demonstrates Rupp himself was doping.

Except for, oh I dunno, a picture of Rupp's medical chart stating he was on testosterone?

PL... wrote:

Lance had teammates admit to blood doping right alongside him. Huge difference.

Right now, we have 17 people associated (athletes or staff) with Rupp/Salazar that don't have a single lick of factual evidence that demonstrates Rupp himself was doping. That's 17 people who can't prove a damn thing outside of the fact that he may have taken allergy medication. And Alberto handed out Celebrex and perhaps asked Goucher to take a medication. Speaks more in favor of Salazar/Rupp.

LOL, Rupp does take spiked 'allergy 1' and 'allergy 2' meds.

Keep working it Team Salazar: Alex, Tony, Maria, A Duck, and other others on NOP's payroll (Salazar's slush fund). None of your attacks on everyone who implicates your heroes are work. In fact the outcome is the reverse of what you are working for: Save Salazar.

New from ProPublica...just released:

http://www.propublica.org/article/elite-runner-had-qualms-alberto-salazar-asthma-drug-performance

Getting deeper... wrote:

New from ProPublica...just released:

http://www.propublica.org/article/elite-runner-had-qualms-alberto-salazar-asthma-drug-performance

The problem with Fleshman's addition to the matter is that she completely went along with everything, sought out Salazar's help and wanted to get her thyroid checked because she thought she was deficient. Then all of a sudden she puts on a "holier than thou attitude" and claims what others are supposedly doing is an ethical violation, even though she was using the same schemes and workarounds to get the medications. Is it a good thing that she took a step back and realized that the way she was gaming the system was a bad thing? Probably. But you don't get to cross the line of getting TUEs for drugs and the suddenly reverse your stance on things and call everyone using them guilty of ethical violations.

From the latest article, Lauren Fleshman: After I got the medication, he [Salazar] explained to me that this is going to be great for you, so many athletes once they got on this, did so much better than they'd ever done before. And he described the ways that could happen: there's a glucocorticosteroid in [Advair], and there's a possibility that some of that could get systemically into your body and give you an advantage, and you can legally take it because you have asthma ... He encouraged me to push to be on the highest dose of it year round, which was something different than what the doctor had said.

Watchsocks wrote:

.....

Fanboys are going to lose. There is no saving Salazar. There is no problem with Fleshman's statement.

Halfway through I thought this was a sarcastic troll. I honestly didn't think anyone could be that stupid.

Oh boy here we go. We should have all known there is too much drama here for Ms. "Super ego" Fleshman to not be a part of this.

I would love someone to give one example of an athlete and/or coach that had this many specific allegations come out against them and wasn't ultimately proven guilty. In any sport.

If you've followed cycling at all, you'll seen this pattern repeat itself 50+ times in the past decade. Same goes for baseball and sprinting. First it's rival coaches and athletes, then it's former teammates... they start talking, and the athlete or coach in question just denies everything and attacks them for being jealous. Once the massage therapist starts talking, though, it's all but over.

You means Mr "Super ego" Salazar.

In my opinion you're right and wrong. Something is going on. I am just skeptical of the true extent and of outright doping versus manipulating the TUE process. I'm not condoning either, but I do remain unconvinced that there is a full blown testosterone or EPO doping scheme going on here.

The problem with your dice analysis is that we don't know what the 17 people said, and several that we do know aren't really that damning. Is Rohatinsky one? Is Stuart Eagon one? I don't think either had anything incriminating to say. Even what Adam and Kara Goucher said, in my mind, is not super incriminating from a usada perspective.

Several of the people that have commented have, in large part, just said "Yeah, I could believe that. I don't have any reason to doubt Steve Magness." It does say something that their experiences with Alberto make them believe the claims, but so far, a lot of the accusations are just opinions.

KMB wrote:

Aren't those of you accusing Robert and Weldon of biased and sloppy journalism and worse, and trying to poke holes in the Epstein, BBC and Lawton accounts, at least a little concerned that Salazar hasn't delivered on his promise to issue a substantive statement by now?

Yes. Something I saw yesterday or the day before from Ken Goe seemed to indicate a response would be coming before USAs. That is my, admittedly meaningless, deadline.

PL... wrote:

Lance had teammates admit to blood doping right alongside him. Huge difference.

In some alternate universe. The admission was long after the lifetime ban recommended by USADA and consented by the UCI.

Individuals that published their personal accounts of doping that later made it into USADA's report were personally attacked by the cycling federation and/or blacklisted from the sport.

Lance, USA Cycling (who ran USPS), and the UCI and Co. denied the whole time.

So did Fleshman admit to doping? I mean, is what she has admitted to doing with the inhaler considered cheating? If not, then that opens the door for Rupp to say "Yeah, I use an inhaler the same way Lauren did. That wasn't cheating, so neither is what I do."

I think the only way this gets anywhere is if a NOP current or former athlete says that they knowingly or unknowingly cheated under the guidance of Alberto Salazar. Even if that means having past PRs, championships, medals taken away, if they truly cared about the spirit of the sport, it would be a worthy admission. So far everyone is sticking to the story that they are all super-duper clean and their integrity is spotless. For us to believe that only one guy out of 20+ was able to be tempted is a far stretch.

The more I read, the more it seems like the Gouchers, Fleshman, and Rohatinsky are hiding something, for fear that past performances of theirs be called into question.

canspo wrote:

Yes. Something I saw yesterday or the day before from Ken Goe seemed to indicate a response would be coming before USAs.

It is obvious that Salazar is using Goe to help get the \"true story\" out. Goe will likely get advanced access, and prepare several articles that will be ready for publication as quickly as possible. The articles will be typical Goe pieces.