Sprintgeezer: Sprint training advice

I don't think you read this thread. I was (and am at heart) a distance runner. I am taking time to sprint and develop the speed and strength that have always been my limiting factors and thus be able to come back to the distances a better runner.

I am very weak but am working at rectifying this

Flo'da boy wrote:

I don't think you read this thread. I was (and am at heart) a distance runner. I am taking time to sprint and develop the speed and strength that have always been my limiting factors and thus be able to come back to the distances a better runner.

I am very weak but am working at rectifying this

I have read the thread, and if nearly two years after your first post - taking a break from distance to try sprinting - and the results of your training are as you describe, then you are either a troll or extremely weak. Sets of benches at 135? Really?

I already conceded that I am extremely weak... I'm just less extremely weak than I was two years ago

coach d wrote:

I'm still around occasionally, probably more for summer now that NCAA season is over (I finally get a chance to race!). I can tell you that my buddy SG is not dead, but also that he has been and still is true to his word of never coming back here. He became totally fed up with the morons who infest this board and he left permanently, as have most real coaches who used to post on here.

.

Coach D, where did Sprintgeezer live? Did you talk to him off line? Did he

ever live in Ontario?

Yes, he did.

Flo'da Boy is not trolling, he had some excellent advice for my thread about breaking 12 seconds in the 100m dash (and I still plan to fulfill that quest when I have time.)

It seemed like Sprintgeezer was also very knowledgeable, and I have no idea where he went (really hope he wasn't pretending)

Anyway, great thread Flo'da Boy. Hopefully you can reach your goals in sprinting!

Thanks word.! I'm glad I somehow managed to be helpful haha

How has your progress been going by the way? Any meets planned for the winter?

This may be a bit out of the blue, but I was taking a look at word.'s sub 12 100m thread, and their seemed to be this continual controversy (misunderstaning more like) over the role of all out 100's as a part of 100m training. Bad Wigin's was a proponent of these, and the misunderstanding lay in whether these should be the only component of training (I don't think this is what he was actually advocating, but the question was raised). Why I bring this up is that there WAS (IS?) a system that actually does this!

Now, bear with me, I know the first thing that comes to mind when this group is brought up.

The Greek sprinters that had so much success in the nineties and the early half of the 2000s, ran under a system in which, purportedly (I'll dig up some of the links later I think), training consisted almost entirely of all-out sprints, 100s and 200s (depending the focus of the athlete). I believe it was based partially on Abadijev weightlifting principles. If I recall correctly, their intense days were something like 2x200m all out with 30 minutes (or more) rest between intervals, while their 'less intense' days would feature a sort of double: 2x2x200m (with 5 minutes between reps, and full rest between sets). There is some debate over the extent (or even whether they incorporated) weightlifting.

This systems produced a 19.85 and an Olympic Gold with Konstantinos Kenteris, and a 100m Silver in Ekaterini Thanou.

BUT of course this system probably could only exist with doping (though these two athletes never tested positive, they actively avoided doping control and I believe were convicted for perjury for making up a story about a motorcycle accident to avoid a test).

Why I bring this up though (other than idle curiosity) is that I wonder if such a method may have (with moderation) some merit, much like how Charlie Francis--whose athletes were all doped to the gills--still merits consideration when discussing sprint training. Perhaps a more intensive system like this could pay dividends to a slower athlete (as such attempts might take less of a toll on the CNS).

If I have said anything completely preposterous, please weigh in and correct me

there is graph/chart thingy in on of charlie francis' ebooks where it shows the ratio of high to low intensity training and at the outset of a young athlete's training (year 0) EVERYTHING is high intensity then it levels out to be more and more low intensity from years 3 or 4 onwards until year 8 where volume has to drop to maintain gains.

basically with a completely untrained athlete in the CF system the difference between a tempo day and a accel/max V day isn't relevent they are going all out every session because they aren't fit and are just starting to put money into bank as far as training goes.. as they progress in training years the easy days become easier as far as realitive effor goes and they exist to facilitate recovery and not to really build fitness.

i'm pretty well versed in CFTS as a school of thought but know nothing at all about what the greeks were doing, basically same idea as far as high low even if they did nothing on their off days or whatever. if you have a more complete schedule as far as a sample training week it would probably be just a eastern block twist on high low with more of a focus on the 200m since a Greek guy has a better chance in that event. Keep in mind that CF was a 100m guy coaching Ben Jo for 100m results, the best 200m out of their camp was Tony Sharpe with a 20.2 and he was on a different plan with SE runs of 250 and 300m.

The 2x2x200m would bring up some differences from 2x200 as far as energy systems that would be benefical both for running rounds of the 200 and hanging on at the end of a 200m race. As far the 100m silver for the womens if she just ran 100m in training she was leaving a bit of stuff as far as acceleration on the table, although i would wager she was doing 60m training runs during indoors.

just check thanou's IAAF page and her 200 pr was 24.46 in a season she ran an 11.43 in the 100, the disparity is redic.

take home point is not to follow either CF or any eastern block weightlifting method to the letter unless you've got alot of 'recovery agents' sititng around. learn from it but don't copy it.

Yes, I agree, all of what you says makes sense. The big difference, though, between CF and the Greeks seems to be that the Greek sprinters seem to do almost no support work (and take a lot of days off it seemed?). Also I think at a certain point they stopped doing 60s even for indoor! (I don't know when she set her 60 PR though).

Here is a good thread where I got a lot of this information of anyone is interested:

http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?13500-Christos-Tsekos-any-information

more than one way to skin a cat, one of the comments on the first page of that CF.com thread is along the lines of "you can do anything and get elite level results"... which seems pretty true.

Very true Joel

Anyway, I've been starting to incorporate overhead presses (well I think that's the right term, I just mean lifting a barbell overhead) into my weight workouts. This is motivated partly by a desire to eventually learn and incorporate Olympic lifts (for fun and profit!) as well as to meet an old maxim of Cerruty's (something about not being able to lift ones own weight above your head leaves you one of natures weaklings). Does anyone have any experience with this lift? I also figured it would be good shoulder work that also requires full body stability

those are called military presses if you aren't using your legs and push presses if you are, i knew what you were talking about, overhead presses is a suitable term.

you don't have to overhead press to do power cleans, which are probably fine as far as motor recruitment for T&F. idk

only advice is do your presses in front of your head and not behind down your neck bc of potential shoulder issues.

Been a while since I've updated this (I don't feel too bad about boring you wth my trivial exploits since more venerable posters have offered such wonderful insight here).

Ran at the second meet of the summer track series here in Jacksonville. Of late I haven't really been doing as much specific sprint work, at least not with so singular a focus. I'll do sprint work once or twice a week (not including strides) and have been doing weights two or three times a week but I have been doing a lot more easy running.

Anyway, my friend and I jumped into the 100 to warm up for our main event. I was surprised to equal my personal best (14.06) into a head wind. Hardly earth shattering but it was certainly comforting to overcome the fear that any aerobic work would degrade what little speed I had. (I managed third and reached my time goal in the 800m in a watered down field but I was plenty pleased with it!)

I hope to run 100s and maybe some 200s over the remaining meets (still focusing on the 8) and see if I can finally break that mystical 14 second barrier haha

Keep up the good work, FB.

Flo'da boy wrote:I hope to run 100s and maybe some 200s over the remaining meets (still focusing on the 8) and see if I can finally break that mystical 14 second barrier haha

are these meets FAT? I hope you get your goal time & glad to see this thread resurrected...

I'm a sprinter and sprint coach and just started looking at LetsRun recently and this thread. Anyone have anymore info on SprintGeezer? Was he a long time coach or just a serious masters athlete? Would be interested to have serious chat with him.

I believe it was FAT? There were no sensors in the blocks or anything (I didn't even bother with blocks this time) but there was a camera setup and a wind gauge. FAT doesn't matter too much to me at this point, as long as I improve

Curious GeorgeII wrote:

I'm a sprinter and sprint coach and just started looking at LetsRun recently and this thread. Anyone have anymore info on SprintGeezer? Was he a long time coach or just a serious masters athlete? Would be interested to have serious chat with him.

He ended up being like a 15 year old suburbanite cross runner that was just pulling material from a sprint forum if I recall correctly.