edited: Tasering at Club Nationals Afterparty

To the Master of the Obvious...

Your conclusion that such things wouldn't happen in a big, decent city is so ludicrous that no one even responded to it until now.

Of course the cops in NYC would never go too far or excessive with their force (let alone other improprieties that disgrace the badge).

I'm fairly certain an innocent man was shot 41 times by NYPD in a case of "mistaken" identity.

No, of course excessive force would never happen in NYC.

Yeah, I know... cops do stuff in big cities as well. I may be Master of Obvious, but not Master of Specificity.

What I mean is that in a bigger city, there is no way that three cops would be hovering around a runner's afterparty waiting for something to go down, and then busting into a bathroom to solve this critical societal problem. They have better things to do.

Also, in NY, anyway, there would be something better to do than hang around a hotel lounge or whatever it was. And I have never heard of cops in NY hanging around a party anyway. In other towns, it seems like cops make extra money by working outside bars and clubs. That is basically looking to find trouble, in my opinion. This doesn't happen in bigger cities, because the cops are actually out dealing with real crime.

I lived in Lexington area and know suburban Cincy somewhat. That is exactly the kind of place where I would expect to find an underly busy, overly officious group of cops "monitoring" some skinny runners in a hotel banquet hall.

Master of Obvious wrote:

Also, in NY, anyway, there would be something better to do than hang around a hotel lounge or whatever it was. And I have never heard of cops in NY hanging around a party anyway. In other towns, it seems like cops make extra money by working outside bars and clubs. That is basically looking to find trouble, in my opinion. This doesn't happen in bigger cities, because the cops are actually out dealing with real crime.

.

In New York Rudy Giuliani would have sent in his crack broomstick brigade and given that guy a wooden enema, no pany tasering in the Big Apple!

Drunks have rights to! NOT!

I worked at a bar for many years and when the bouncers or police beat someone up, even if it was very bad they always(ALWAYS!) won the court case. Why? Once you start drinking (even one beer) you will lose your rights in a court of law. We had one bounder (not a cop) who had 85 lawsuits and never lost! Some of the people he beat up did not deserve it and some where hurt very very badly!....but they had been drinking and he had not! That is all that is needed to win the lawsuits. Even if there are wittnesses for the drunks. Just think of all the bars that would have to close if drunks started winning lawsuits. Comes down to money! Yepper, you drunks (runners) don't have a leg to stand on.

BouncerinIL wrote:

Drunks have rights to! NOT!

I worked at a bar for many years and when the bouncers or police beat someone up, even if it was very bad they always(ALWAYS!) won the court case. Why? Once you start drinking (even one beer) you will lose your rights in a court of law. We had one bounder (not a cop) who had 85 lawsuits and never lost! Some of the people he beat up did not deserve it and some where hurt very very badly!....but they had been drinking and he had not! That is all that is needed to win the lawsuits. Even if there are wittnesses for the drunks. Just think of all the bars that would have to close if drunks started winning lawsuits. Comes down to money! Yepper, you drunks (runners) don't have a leg to stand on.

This doesn't sound like the country I live in or want to live in.

some bad info wrote:

Chill out, no one knows what happened between the guy and the cop. We have a story of a guy eating chicken wings at a table like 15 feet away, and the guys buddy who was carried out of a ladies room.

Huh? You don't even make sense. Clearly MANY people DO know what happened between the guy and the cop. If you were standing 15 feet away and saw everything... what is that OTHER THAN KNOWING WHAT HAPPENED?? If anything, I would say that the cop and Mike definitely did NOT know what was going on, considering the fact that the cop apparently thought Mike was threatening/attacking him (when that was not his intention) and Mike did not think he was acting in a threatening manner, but apparently the cop did.

I can definitely appreciate the position any police officer is in everyday. I am so thankful that they are here to protect my rights and keep me safe. I also know that they have to be on-guard at all times...

HOWEVER that is the nature of their job and they need to be held to the highest standards. If you have the right to carry a firearm and potentially injure/kill someone based on your SUBJECTIVE discretion, you damn well better know that you WILL be accountable for your actions, should you screw up. I will shed no tears for a officer who loses his job over an abuse of power. This authority is not a god-given right.

The sad thing of this situation is that instead of this being a thread about whether the cop should have action taken against him or not, we are debating whether Mike should be charged with a felony or not.

I am sure you will brush off my emotional rant as "cop-hating" and lump me in a group, but that is because YOU WERE NOT THERE. You are reading this just like you would read any story in the paper. If you were there when it happened and saw this shocked runner sitting in handcuffs with his head was dripping blood on the ground around him while the cop clearly used aggression to cover-up his mistakes. He escalated a situation unnecessarily and then got in anyone's face who was near to scare everyone away from the scene.

It is BS that Mike is the fall guy for this officer's lack of professionalism. If I screwed up at work like this guy did, I would be canned... I cannot bash people's heads, tase them and charge them with felonies to save my ass.

With the power of authority comes great risk. I want only THE BEST and MOST QUALIFIED people in these positions of power (police, politicians, the president, etc). Anyone in that postion deserves no special-pardons for mistakes like this because their mistakes can and do greatly affect others (ex: THE STAPLES IN MIKE'S HEAD!).

I am also sorry that Mike is taking the fall because he represents what is right about the closeness of the running community. As we know now, he was NOT in the bathroom, but saw a fellow runner getting roughed around and spoke up. The same way Nick Rogers (sp?) did when he saw Mike get slammed into a wall and shocked with a bolt of electricity UNNECESSARILY. I am glad there were people like Mike and Nick there to look out for their friends.

End of rant.

i just read through the entire thread again and noticed some inaccuracies. i want to clarify so people's opinions don't escalate out of control, more than they have. FWIW, i always give officers the benefit of the doubt in these types of situations because their job is difficult and i don't know what happened. In this situation, however, i do know what happened (what led up to the tasering) and have made myself available to Mike's defense people. i'm not avoiding anything, it's just that the police haven't come after me. If they do, i'll deal with it.

1. i hadn't had a drink for over an hour before i entered the women's bathroom and had had 2 cups of water (had an empty clear plastic cup in my hand) in that time. i took a silly dare.

2. As i was having a decent conversation with Leigh, i was making my way to the door, realizing it was silly to be in there and i wanted to leave. i stopped and stood with my back to the wall as i answered a question, about 2 feet from the door, letting a couple girls leave before me.

3. The officer came in at that time and as he told me to leave, HE BLOCKED THE DOOR. i wanted to leave, but couldn't without bumping into him. i wanted him to know i was calm, so i raised my hands to my shoulders, palms forward and said there was no trouble. i expected him to give me a pathway so i could exit. He didn't.

4. The officer immediately grabbed me by the front of my shirt, collar height and threw me out the door and pushed me from behind out into the crowd. It wasn't a massive crowd. People milling around in a hallway area, talking and laughing.

5. i looked over my left shoulder and said, "Just so you know officer. A girl dared me to go in there. It wasn't my bright idea." i thought this would point out that i knew it was SILLY and he'd tell me to go back to my room and i'd comply.

6. His response was to grab my left arm, i said, "Are you serious?", to which he reacted in a more agitated way, and i LET HIM wrench my arm behind my back. That's when i thought if i don't resist he'll just toss me and let me go because i'm not a threat. i don't mind if he tosses me, just so it ends.

7. i said, 3 times, "i'm not resisting officer." That's all. He responded by throwing (i use that word carefully) me at the first double doors. i got up and he pushed (i use that word carefully) me forcefully at the second doors and i ended up face down on the sidewalk. He never beat me, but he did throw me head first at glass doors.

8. i got up and stood there for 30 seconds as Mike was tasered. The officer never said to me, "you're under arrest" or "stay here" or "i'm taking you downtown". He actually didn't say anything to me after "you need to leave the bathroom now". So i stood there and watched the tasering (i couldn't believe it was happening). i decided that the officer was just trying to throw me out, i was out, and now it was best for me to leave and let the attention focus on Mike so the paramedics (who were on their way because he was bleeding) would be able to help him. i thought that if i was still there, there might be more mayhem and that would get in the way of attending to Mike.

9. i circled back around to see what was happening and Mike's friends told me to go back to my room. i did.

10. i don't know Mike, Mike doesn't know me. He saw me getting roughed up and decided to do what he thought would help. In retrospect, i wish he hadn't, for his sake. i would've been fine if the officer had just thrown me out and nobody was hurt. i will say that i thought i was going to break the door glass with my head, the way he threw me at it, head first. i just wanted it to end and that's why i never resisted and stated it 3 times.

Focus on helping Mike. i think most officers do a good job and actually try to do a good job. Some officers, just like any person in any job, aren't good at it and make mistakes. It's unfortunate that officer's mistakes have MUCH more serious consequences. My overall opinion of police won't change - most are good people, including the 8 i consider friends, but i know there are bad apples and i hope this one is fired and Mike's charges are dropped. Give your eye-witness accounts if you haven't already. And i'd like to suggest that we donate money to Mike's cause somehow.

i don't know if posting this was a good or bad idea, i just hope it lends perspective and helps calm down those who weren't there. If you don't know what happened, please keep your opinions to yourself. Don't speculate, you have no basis. i think this post should put the thread to rest. Let's give our testimonies and wait for the results and hope Mike is cleared.

its a good thing mike isnt black. i wonder how the situation would be different.

Helping this get resolved.

From what I'm hearing it sounds like Mike is going to have one heck of a legal bill, especially if he has to fly in any witnesses. It also sounds like he's toward the lower end of the financial resources scale. Does anyone know if his team has set up a fund for him at a bank that we can contribute to if we want to?

not a true hata wrote:

[quote]:

I gave my testimony as well, and it was polar opposite to yours. The fact that you hadn't had a drink in an hour is a looooong way from being sober. You acted like a smart ass. You may not of realized this because you had been drinking. I hadn't had a drink in 10 years so I was probably a little more sober than you.

Now I understand your posts. It's the testimony of a self righteous older guy who had some kind of drinking issue and now feels that every situation that involves any alcohol is a reason to speak of its evils.

Pull your lips off the cops ass a minute and remember when you were young.

For all you "Tasers are no big deal" guys check the link. Our national police for is being advised to "restrict the use of tasers to only the most serious encounters with people who are combative or pose a risk of “death or grievous bodily harm.”

This report came out of the fact that recently a guy who was no threat at all was tasered and he immediately died. That incident has spawned a huge outcry from the public, and much of the government. Pretty much no one, including the police, is actually backing casual taser use at this point.

The report also notes that "the most powerful asset in a police officer's arsenal is public support. Anything that erodes that support reduces the ability of officers to successfully perform their duties on behalf of the public".

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071212.wtaser1212/BNStory/National/home

despite any attitude towards the cop, does that warrant physical action? shouldn't a cop use verbal force before physical? i sort of figured that was common sense...

mike's a great guy, and it's sad to see this happen. as obviously stated quite a few times before, it doesn't seem that ANYONE was using physical force against the cop.

is a cop allowed to use physical force against someone who is cooperating? is a cop allowed to use physical force without First attempting verbal communication - then eventually verbal force?

is it not common sense to give verbal communication a chance FIRST before using physical force? as earlier stated, no one was refusing the cops orders. and it doesn't seem like the cop was listening too well when getting responses from his commands to leave.

actions speak louder then words. even if someone is mouthing off, if their hands are on their head - does that make them a physical threat? considering that no one had a weapon, no one was physically challenging the cop, and i'm pretty sure the majority present were probably under 170 pounds (well under the average weight required to become a police officer - i know this because despite easily breezing by the academic and athletic portions of the tests, i was what they considered "well under weight" to become a police officer), how can the cop consider anyone a threat? ecspecially when people are Physically cooperating.

i can't help but feel that people are attempting to justify the cops use of PHYSICAL action when no one was using PHYSICAL action against him.

Why is you being female a kicker?

Anyway, what is your statement? We have heard a lot of eyewitness accounts that demonstrate that someone who did not seem to be a threat got tasered. Does your statement contradict that?

Note that saying people were drunk is not relevant. Saying that you didn't like guys in the girls bathroom is not relevant. Saying that people were immature is not relevant. Given the speculation on this thread, it would be very interesting to hear if you have any information that somehow indicates that the cop that tasered the guy was in some way in danger, threatened, or did not have other options as to deal with the guy.

The Mike Gerber Legal Defense Fund has been set up at Regions Bank, 100 Kedron Way, Peachtree City, Georgia 30269.

You can either send your donations directly to the bank or to Indra Turnbull, 114 North Cove Drive, Peachtree City, Georgia and I will deposit them immediately.

Many thanks for your support of a fine young man and a fellow runner.

not a true hater:

i'm sure the detective was happy you came forward, i'm sure they needed SOMEONE to side with their dumb@$$ cop since it seems there's an overwelming opposition to the cop. the detective might as well said "congrats! you are now part of the minority that sides with our idiot cop!"

maybe now with your comments the whole department won't go under review for police brutality and you may have saved a load of jobs!

so you really do think the guy deserved to be tasered and earned those stitches?

Cops having seemingly swtiched from the billy club to the taser. I can only attest to how they are being used in my city, but it appears they are pretty low on the "use of force" scale: verbal warning, taser, gun. Surrounded by a bunch of drunk party goers the single cop in question likely got a little over his head, was probably a rookie given a shitty assignment, and got nervous. Cops are gettin taser-happy because they aren't being told how and when to properly use it.

Of course I'm just making assumptions.

Alan

again, are you from MA, MD, NC, CA, IL, NY or VT?

and i suppose, why did your post get deleted?

not a true hata probably realized how stupid she looked with her post and didn't want to involve herself in this big mess. unfortunately the majority of everyone in the thread has already read what she wrote.

that's still funny though that she deleted her own post. sad day...

Are you people that dumb? "not a true hater" is neither a woman, nor was he at Nationals.