Olympic Champ + World Champ + Millrose >>> World XC Champ and Chicago Marathon
Wait, I thought we were talking about "right now" ... 2024 is old news .... Hocker's terrible 2025 in the 1500/mile proves that what happened two summers ago doesn't mean much.
Right now means who is currently a Reigning Champion. Hocker is Reigning Olympic Champ and Reigning World Champ. That's a better current set of titles than what Kiplimo has.
You're so illogical. If the track 10,000 competition was weaker, then why couldn't Kiplimo win gold on the track?
That tells you the competition on the roads is weaker.
Pretty dumb question there. But sure, I can educate you.
Kiplimo never really had a track career separate from his time succeeding as a road runner.
He first ran on the roads at least as far back as 2015 (listed at 15 y.o., DOB Nov 2000), he raced the roads as well as track/XC 2016-2019, and early in his career ran 57:37 in 2020 (listed as 20 y.o. -- the age doesn't really matter; the point it was early in his running).
In fall 2019 he had great success on the roads winning major races in the 10k, 15k and HM distances. (The same year he had placed 2nd to Cheptegei in his first senior World XC race.)
He was very fast on the track (12:40 and 26:33), but his bread and butter has been the road and in particular HM for a long time. Road paydays are absolutely massive compared with the track. Any African runner with the ability will chase the available money as soon as possible. This is old news.
If Kiplimo was in the position of Fisher (USA), Gressier (FRA) or Ahmed (CAN), could he have chased a faster 5000 or trained specifically for a fast last-lap championship 10,000 -- instead of 57-minute half marathon and winning every road race in sight? Probably. But I doubt he cares (nor does his agent).
Meanwhile, what "tells me" you're wrong about track vs roads is that as a road runner Kiplimo simply devasted that the reigning world 10,000 champion over 10k.
I'm not a Hocker hater, but you're right. Add to that, Hocker won against one of the weakest fields in recent years over the 5k. No Cheptegai & Kejelcha, Jakob wasn't in form. Had they been there in shape, Hocker would be out of medal if not finishing in 10th. Jakob would have surely not let the pace slip which gave Hocker the chance to recover. If the last mile was 3:55 as in Paris and Budapest, Hocker would've been gassed before the bell.
I'm not a Hocker hater, but you're right. Add to that, Hocker won against one of the weakest fields in recent years over the 5k. No Cheptegai & Kejelcha, Jakob wasn't in form. Had they been there in shape, Hocker would be out of medal if not finishing in 10th. Jakob would have surely not let the pace slip which gave Hocker the chance to recover. If the last mile was 3:55 as in Paris and Budapest, Hocker would've been gassed before the bell.
You say it was one of the weakest fields but it had the 10K champ and several sub-12:50 guys. It was missing Kejelcha and that’s about it. Almgren couldn’t make the final, it had Kimeli, Nico, Grant, Jimmy, Mehary, Hagos basically every guy who did anything in the 5,000 besides Yomif. The race was also much faster than those ones so talk of the last mile is silly.
Someone who dominates the distance events they compete in is superior to someone who only wins occasionally. End of argument.
Wrong. That's like saying someone who dominates in NCAA Division 2 is better than the NCAA Division 1 Champion.
Winning global championships at the highest level of the sport matters most.
Kiplimo's events are amongst the top of the sport for distance running. He wins them more often than not. Hocker goes for long periods when he doesn't win anything at an international level. That makes him the lesser runner. Only the deluded maintain otherwise.
Wrong. That's like saying someone who dominates in NCAA Division 2 is better than the NCAA Division 1 Champion.
Winning global championships at the highest level of the sport matters most.
Kiplimo's events are amongst the top of the sport for distance running. He wins them more often than not. Hocker goes for long periods when he doesn't win anything at an international level. That makes him the lesser runner. Only the deluded maintain otherwise.
Compare Kiplimo's wins within the last year to Hocker's by level of competition.
World Championship > World XC Championship
Millrose > Chicago
US Championship > Barcelona Half-Marathon
Hokie Invitational < Buenos Aires Half-Marathon
Hocker's wins are more impressive overall, AND he has the current prestige of being Reigning Olympic Champion, the biggest title of them all, which Kiplimo has never held.
Hocker is #1 right now. Only a hater would maintain otherwise.
Kiplimo's events are amongst the top of the sport for distance running. He wins them more often than not. Hocker goes for long periods when he doesn't win anything at an international level. That makes him the lesser runner. Only the deluded maintain otherwise.
Compare Kiplimo's wins within the last year to Hocker's by level of competition.
World Championship > World XC Championship
Millrose > Chicago
US Championship > Barcelona Half-Marathon
Hokie Invitational < Buenos Aires Half-Marathon
Hocker's wins are more impressive overall, AND he has the current prestige of being Reigning Olympic Champion, the biggest title of them all, which Kiplimo has never held.
Hocker is #1 right now. Only a hater would maintain otherwise.
You’ll have to explain some of these.
Kiplimo has won I think 4 World XC titles? That is almost exactly as much as Bekele would have won had the event only been every 2-3 years. While he likely isn’t the GOAT, having effectively the same # of titles makes it an extremely impressive achievement, moreso than the 5000m WC. Context matters here.
While Millrose had a better field, the Chicago marathon was finished in a time that is far more impressive than 8:07, and since the Marathon is an Olympic distance, it matters even more. You can’t argue that it is better due to these facts.
The Hokie Invitational? I’m sorry what? Is that where Hocker ran a 4:52 2000m? He ran that against college kids and it was a training run. 58:29 is more impressive as a time in an off distance and he beat a better field than…Cooper Teare.
The fact that this is even debatable makes it even more obvious that Hocker is not the best distance runner in the world.
I'm not a Hocker hater, but you're right. Add to that, Hocker won against one of the weakest fields in recent years over the 5k. No Cheptegai & Kejelcha, Jakob wasn't in form. Had they been there in shape, Hocker would be out of medal if not finishing in 10th. Jakob would have surely not let the pace slip which gave Hocker the chance to recover. If the last mile was 3:55 as in Paris and Budapest, Hocker would've been gassed before the bell.
Very smart post.
Someone who knows the sport.
It was the weakest championship 5000 field in the the past decade.
Wrong. That's like saying someone who dominates in NCAA Division 2 is better than the NCAA Division 1 Champion.
Winning global championships at the highest level of the sport matters most.
Kiplimo's events are amongst the top of the sport for distance running. He wins them more often than not. Hocker goes for long periods when he doesn't win anything at an international level. That makes him the lesser runner. Only the deluded maintain otherwise.
This.
Kiplimo runs where all of the great dream of going: Geb, Tergat, Bekele, Farah, Jakob.
Anything else Hocker does will be in the watered-down long track races: 5000 and 10,000 if he's smart.
He was always too slow for the 800, and doesn't have the moves for the 1500 anymore (even with a 7:23 3000m, he ran slowly in the 15000 and had championship flops/DQs at nationals/WC).
We can all see that the long track races are where North American and European runners hang out when they can't go fast OR long on a global elite level. Ahmed, Rupp, Fisher, Gressier. Their betters all race on the roads. (Rupp is a great example: tried the marathon and was never impressive on the level of his track 10,000 -- the event was and is so watered down because the best go to the roads.)
Hocker will never be good enough to race 57:xx HMs and 2:02-2:03 marathons like Kiplimo. So he lives in the "special" in-between distances.
Wrong. That's like saying someone who dominates in NCAA Division 2 is better than the NCAA Division 1 Champion.
Winning global championships at the highest level of the sport matters most.
Kiplimo's events are amongst the top of the sport for distance running. He wins them more often than not. Hocker goes for long periods when he doesn't win anything at an international level. That makes him the lesser runner. Only the deluded maintain otherwise.
Compare Kiplimo's wins within the last year to Hocker's by level of competition.
Millrose > Chicago
🤡
Your argument is getting worse and worse.
Winning Chicago Marathon (obvious prestige event, easily top-5 road races of the year) vs Winning the Millrose 2-mile (unofficial indoor distance, will be quickly forgotten, contested by runners who didn't get into or preferred not to run the big one, the Wannamaker Mile.)
2:02:23 vs 8:07
$100,000 prize vs Chump change ($7,000?? Cute.)
Kiplimo ran an elite times, for elite money, in the best race of the fall season in his discipline.
Hocker won an oddity distance, slowly, for peanuts, choosing to sit out the prestige event at the same meet.
Woah dude. Your earlier posts were comical because your "arguments" were so laughably absurd, but now I'm concerned about your mental health. The level of stupidity and obsessiveness in your posts is very disturbing. You appear to have Hocker Deranged Syndrome. Please seek help.
Woah dude. Your earlier posts were comical because your "arguments" were so laughably absurd, but now I'm concerned about your mental health. The level of stupidity and obsessiveness in your posts is very disturbing. You appear to have Hocker Deranged Syndrome. Please seek help.
Hocker #1
You're concerned... because I pointed out Kiplimo spent Oct-Jan winning well over $100K ($100K for CHI, $30K for World XC) and winning two of the biggest races on earth... while Hocker time trialed a couple of times and won a secondary race at Millrose.
This talk about Cole Hocker being the #1 distance runner is off the back of his 2 mile victory.
However, my general feeling is that the 2 mile field was overrated, especially with the absence of Grant Fisher. He was never going to be seriously challenged in an 8:07 race the way it played out. I actually think the Wannamaker Mile was the harder and more talented race, with Myers, Nuguse, Kessler and Nico. So unless he is racing against those guys, hard to say he is the #1 distance guy.
Grant Fisher - scratched Josh Kerr - first race back after injury, no idea of fitness levels. Parker Wolfe - coming off 10K XC, hadn't put in the sessions. Ky Robinson - doesn't have a strong kick. George Beamish - rarely puts himself in contention to win. Ethan Strand - miler first and foremost. Drew Hunter - journey man. Graham Blanks - decent engine, no kick. Cooper Teare - journey man. Edwin Kurgat - has no speed. Jake Wightman - as we saw in the 2000m, doesn't have the legs for long races.
This talk about Cole Hocker being the #1 distance runner is off the back of his 2 mile victory.
However, my general feeling is that the 2 mile field was overrated, especially with the absence of Grant Fisher. He was never going to be seriously challenged in an 8:07 race the way it played out. I actually think the Wannamaker Mile was the harder and more talented race, with Myers, Nuguse, Kessler and Nico. So unless he is racing against those guys, hard to say he is the #1 distance guy.
Grant Fisher - scratched Josh Kerr - first race back after injury, no idea of fitness levels. Parker Wolfe - coming off 10K XC, hadn't put in the sessions. Ky Robinson - doesn't have a strong kick. George Beamish - rarely puts himself in contention to win. Ethan Strand - miler first and foremost. Drew Hunter - journey man. Graham Blanks - decent engine, no kick. Cooper Teare - journey man. Edwin Kurgat - has no speed. Jake Wightman - as we saw in the 2000m, doesn't have the legs for long races.
This guy gets it.
NYRR MILLROSE WANNAMAKER MILE - a.k.a. "The Prestige Race of the Meet" 🏆 Cameron MYERS Yared NUGUSE Hobbs KESSLER Nico YOUNG Andrew COSCORAN Festus LAGAT Robert FARKEN Gary MARTIN Oliver HOARE
Millrose 2-Mile Run - a.k.a. "Hocker and Beamish vs. washed vs. journeymen" 😴 Cole HOCKER Josh KERR Parker WOLFE Ky ROBINSON Geordie BEAMISH Graham BLANKS Cooper TEARE Andrew HUNTER Habtom SAMUEL Edwin KURGAT Ethan STRAND Jake WIGHTMAN
Kiplimo's events are amongst the top of the sport for distance running. He wins them more often than not. Hocker goes for long periods when he doesn't win anything at an international level. That makes him the lesser runner. Only the deluded maintain otherwise.
This talk about Cole Hocker being the #1 distance runner is off the back of his 2 mile victory.
However, my general feeling is that the 2 mile field was overrated, especially with the absence of Grant Fisher. He was never going to be seriously challenged in an 8:07 race the way it played out. I actually think the Wannamaker Mile was the harder and more talented race, with Myers, Nuguse, Kessler and Nico. So unless he is racing against those guys, hard to say he is the #1 distance guy.
Grant Fisher - scratched Josh Kerr - first race back after injury, no idea of fitness levels. Parker Wolfe - coming off 10K XC, hadn't put in the sessions. Ky Robinson - doesn't have a strong kick. George Beamish - rarely puts himself in contention to win. Ethan Strand - miler first and foremost. Drew Hunter - journey man. Graham Blanks - decent engine, no kick. Cooper Teare - journey man. Edwin Kurgat - has no speed. Jake Wightman - as we saw in the 2000m, doesn't have the legs for long races.
Top 4 in the mile field:
Myers - a teenager who had to pull out of World XC because of fainting and blackout issues Nuguse - didn't make the World Champs last year, appears to be on the decline (ran almost 2 seconds slower this year than he did last year) Kessler - didn't make the World Champs last year, ran with a calf injury, was literally limping off the track after the race Nico - not a miler, he's primarily a 5k-10k guy
The 2-mile had 4 World Championship gold medalists in the field. The mile had 0.