Another day, another dollar. Identical pattern in today's run: 20 km of fluctuating heartrate followed by 90 km of (mostly) zombiefication where pace, heartrate and cadence are apparently unaffected by gradient, road conditions, headwinds or fatigue.
Coincidently, there are few periods of increased heart (>130 bpm vs <100 bpm) and reduced pace (~8 min/km vs ~7:30 min/km) when he reaches Port Augusta at ~90 km - we can only speculate why that might be.
Why has Willvlc stopped participating in this thread?
He is has been following the run on Strava, but promised many pages back to avoid posting in this threat till the thing is all over, one way or another.
Why has Willvlc stopped participating in this thread?
He is has been following the run on Strava, but promised many pages back to avoid posting in this threat till the thing is all over, one way or another.
He was banned from Strava but appears to be posting under an alt
Why has Willvlc stopped participating in this thread?
I think he wisely realised that there comes a point where the less you say, the more credible you are, especially when everyone with a functioning brain can see what is happening. Also statements about covering an optical wrist HR with a piece of card to get a 110 HR don't seem to be correct - in my experiments. So best to not say things that the apologists can use.
Why has Willvlc stopped participating in this thread?
I think he wisely realised that there comes a point where the less you say, the more credible you are, especially when everyone with a functioning brain can see what is happening. Also statements about covering an optical wrist HR with a piece of card to get a 110 HR don't seem to be correct - in my experiments. So best to not say things that the apologists can use.
I have a Coros and if I take it off and shake it at a running cadence it reads in the low 100’s. The theory of watch muling makes sense if you just pass the watch around and keep it in a pack or pocket. I guess you could also attach it to some kind of device that oscillates in the van. Sounds ridiculous but in order to catch a cheater you have to think like a cheater.
I think he wisely realised that there comes a point where the less you say, the more credible you are, especially when everyone with a functioning brain can see what is happening. Also statements about covering an optical wrist HR with a piece of card to get a 110 HR don't seem to be correct - in my experiments. So best to not say things that the apologists can use.
I have a Coros and if I take it off and shake it at a running cadence it reads in the low 100’s. The theory of watch muling makes sense if you just pass the watch around and keep it in a pack or pocket. I guess you could also attach it to some kind of device that oscillates in the van. Sounds ridiculous but in order to catch a cheater you have to think like a cheater.
Interesting, in no way am I claiming to have cracked the case but I wonder what happens if you put the Coros in an automatic watch winder?
I have a Coros and if I take it off and shake it at a running cadence it reads in the low 100’s
This is precisely why watch HR monitors cannot be trusted. They rely on algorithms that consider movement and the GPS, not just the heart rate.
That's why it's insane that this reality, and the Cockerell gang's arguments that wristwatch monitors are as good as a laboratory, can exist in the same universe. Get over it: watch HR monitors are rubbish and cannot be used exclusively to debunk something!
Try it yourself: if you're out for a run at a consistent pace and start shaking your watch-sided hand rapidly, the pulse reading (and sometimes pace) will skyrocket even though nothing has changed other than a waving hand.
I have a Coros and if I take it off and shake it at a running cadence it reads in the low 100’s
This is precisely why watch HR monitors cannot be trusted. They rely on algorithms that consider movement and the GPS, not just the heart rate.
That's why it's insane that this reality, and the Cockerell gang's arguments that wristwatch monitors are as good as a laboratory, can exist in the same universe. Get over it: watch HR monitors are rubbish and cannot be used exclusively to debunk something!
Try it yourself: if you're out for a run at a consistent pace and start shaking your watch-sided hand rapidly, the pulse reading (and sometimes pace) will skyrocket even though nothing has changed other than a waving hand.
The problem with this attempt at muddying the waters is why in proper competition do they appear to work as you would expect for this runner?
I have had five different Garmin running watches with optical, wrist-based HRM and never an issue. I did start with them by retaining my chest strap I used with conventional HR and was persuaded by my readings that the optical was easily good enough.
They are only not at least semi-accurate when Goodge does these fundraising events - he has tons of good HR data from monitored events, so the question isn’t why are we trusting a wrist HR, but rather why can’t we trust his wrist HR only when he’s on unobserved fundraising runs for supposed record setting paces?
This is precisely why watch HR monitors cannot be trusted. They rely on algorithms that consider movement and the GPS, not just the heart rate.
That's why it's insane that this reality, and the Cockerell gang's arguments that wristwatch monitors are as good as a laboratory, can exist in the same universe. Get over it: watch HR monitors are rubbish and cannot be used exclusively to debunk something!
Try it yourself: if you're out for a run at a consistent pace and start shaking your watch-sided hand rapidly, the pulse reading (and sometimes pace) will skyrocket even though nothing has changed other than a waving hand.
The problem with this attempt at muddying the waters is why in proper competition do they appear to work as you would expect for this runner?
I have had five different Garmin running watches with optical, wrist-based HRM and never an issue. I did start with them by retaining my chest strap I used with conventional HR and was persuaded by my readings that the optical was easily good enough.
I know plenty of people who get perfect HR readings from their wrist strap. Personally I've always used a chest strap because I want to be able to trust my data.
For recreational runners like myself it doesn't really matter, but the real issue here is WG is publicly stating he is going to set a world record while also being well aware of the scepticism around his run (and this isn't the first time) almost solely due to his dodgy looking HR data.
It's also interesting to note that during the US trans con they claimed it was a tech issue (albeit not willing to do anything about it) whereas now they seem to be saying it's just superior genetics.
For me the HR is one thing, it might just be dodgy data... but for it to be consistently dodgy and only when he needs it to be - thats a red flag for me.
But then there is also his running pedigree not quite adding up, how fresh he looks on his socials, lack of any real adversity.
I've never done anything to this level, but if this were me I'd be doing everything in my power to prove I'm running the entire thing and put the critics to bed.
There can only be a few reasons why he hasn't/won't do that: A) Something dodgy is going on B) He's doing it legit but the controversy drives and boosts his engagement (no such thing as bad publicity? (I disagree!))
C) He's an idiot / doesn't care
I can't think of any other reasons why he wouldn't take a few minutes out of his day to put the HR data issue to bed... there are a number of ways he could do it quite simply if he wanted to.
Also one last thing while I'm here - his cadence data is super consistent, almost metronomic. I saw another comment here or on strava saying it didnt match up with any of the clips we have of him runnning on IG/YouTube, might be another area for people to look into.
They are only not at least semi-accurate when Goodge does these fundraising events - he has tons of good HR data from monitored events, so the question isn’t why are we trusting a wrist HR, but rather why can’t we trust his wrist HR only when he’s on unobserved fundraising runs for supposed record setting paces?
The fan boys also forget that WG shills for Whoop. Which, you guessed it, uses wrist based sesnsors to monitor various biometrics. so why is whoop ok but all others are garbage?
Interestingly, WG posted on his Instagram stories last night showing a visibly swollen achilles. This at least suggests he must at least be running some pretty decent mileage. Still begs the question how much of it is he actually running, but i would assume a fair bit to pull an injury like that. Keen to see some shots of his toes next...
Super interesting to watch unfold, almost superhuman consistency. In terms of potential hacks that could occur?
1. When resting in the van, another could continue to jog 20-30km along the route with the watch and after that rest break they just drive towards the alternate runner. Bringing the 110km figure down depending on amount of spare runners to help swap. For anyone driving by it would just seem like he’s resting up and another is jogging around bored. 2. Possibly downloading FIT or GPX files from Garmin connect and merging the runs, then reloading to Garmin. 3. Another factor is any approach vehicle would be seen far far before you can see the runner.
There’s a guy who commented on yesterday’s run - James Leviston - who ran 10 miles or so with him and has the activity on his Strava. Would be interesting to know what Goodges heart rate and cadence was for that stretch but I’m not smart enough to marry the two up