Shelby Houlihan 30:47 10k on the roads: Is this legal for her to do?

she won't break records if she's clean now.

Luckily she'll miss 2 Olympics and won't have an opportunity for another one until she is 35.

Two and a half years is a long long long time as an unsponsored pro.

Doubt she can retire to marathons, certainly not on a world stage.

And no idea if we are going to get pre-2017 or post, which would you guess is the point she said "f*ck it"

I just want to take a moment to highlight the depth of dishonesty packed into these few short sentences meant as a direct personal attack on my character.

First, their is the baseless accusation of "two bold lies in one sentence". There are no lies, unless you mean to take HRE's figurative choice of phrasing "drawn and quartered", literally.

But to say my lengthy posts are baseless, provided with no evidence whatsoever can only be considered pathological self-deception, if not willful lying. The evidence has always been there -- you've just thrown it out as "word salad".

All of my commentary on this case, in many threads about Houlihan, has been thoroughly supported by an extensive amount of material starting with the WADA TD, and continuing through with the WADA Codes, pre and post 2015, the details found in the CAS report, results from research including from the WADA lab director, public quotes from USADA Chief about the WADA Code, public material available regarding USDA practices and standards, public reports of shortages reported during COVID, and public figures of pork practices in the USA, and for that matter, in Kenya, etc.

I know why the naive and ignorant do it, but I have to wonder why seemingly otherwise intelligent posters consistently resort to such emotional characterizations, and resort to such levels of deception and personal attacks, rather than making their case based on rational considerations of all of the facts and evidence.

You keep bringing up her progression, as if it can be best/reasonably/possibly explained by orally micro-dosing nandrolone. As a side note, it is curious you provided a graph showing just how steady her progression was. It would appear that big jumps are signs of doping, as well as linear progressions without jumps. How convenient that all scenarios can be interpreted to indicate doping. Note that performance progression is neither linear nor quadratic -- that is just someone's curve fit. In a couple more years, her performances would have flattened out, and also fit well with a quadratic curve. What does that show? Hard to say really from one tweet.

But, sticking in the realm of facts and evidence, what is it about orally ingested nandrolone "in the low ng/mL range (< 10 ng/mL)" (WADA's words) that makes you think that nandrolone can possibly impact 1500m performance to produce the steady progression you showed us, in a way that is not possible without such low ranges of steroids?

Is that what was meant by "unfounded support"?

Some factual reminders: She tested positive once in Dec. 2020 for a low amount of nandrolone consistent with oral ingestion. This is uncontested. Nandrolone is easily detectable, and has been available since the 1950s. Since around 2002, the detection limit for women was reduced to a low 2 ng/ml. There is at least one study supporting that oral ingestion of small amounts of steroids are ineffective on endurance performance.

For the the anonymous poster falsely accusing me of failing to provide quotes or evidence, I'll leave you with a quote from the well respected anti-doping/elite performance researcher Olaf Schumacher not finding any performance or recovery benefit: "In the present study, no effect of multiple oral doses of AAS on endurance performance or bioserum recovery markers was found.":

link.springer.com

Effect of multiple oral doses of androgenic anabolic steroids on endurance performance and serum indices of physical stress in healthy male subjects - European Journal of Applied Physiology

Anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) are doping agents that are mostly used for improvement of strength and muscle hypertrophy. In some sports, athletes reported that the intake of AAS is associated with a better recovery, a hi...

Link:link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s004...

A 4:22 guy is good, but still a no-name as far as a national website like letsrun goes. Sure he is currently the 800m Iowa high school champ in 1:56, but this run is still a run the vast majority of die hard running fans have never heard of (it is the definition of a no-name event). The other high school kids are good, but If your local fun-run is dominated by local high school kids (none of whom are competive beyond the state level), then it is still a no-name fun-run, as great as those kids are. They were effectlively lapped 3 times by an elite level woman, not even in her best event. No disrespect to these kids, they are great for where they are at, just not evidence that this is a competive professional level event of any kind.

As far as the women you mentioned, yes the masters woman you mentioned, 20 years ago went on to finish 37th at NCAAs, and even set a school record in 35min for a 10k back in the day. And yes the 5th placer is a solid 5:08, 1500m runner at a small private college.

The best person you mentioned was Sarah Anderson, the only other athlete in the field that perhaps an extremely dedicated running fan might have heard of (outside of their home state) but she is still a 2:41 marathoner and that is her best event. So yes, she is probably in the top 1,000 or so athletes globally in her best event, so very good, but not exactly someone with name recognition.

Good results for all of them, but again, almost no one on letsrun has heard of any of these people, so I stand by the statement that this is a no-name event. A $300 prize for the winner, and no prize for second is only one step above a park run, and equivalent to your typical local 5k/10k fun-run. It isn't even enough to fund local travel to the event.

WRONG

actually 3 minutes faster

😥

because the effects from doping last years/decades into the future, and the woman who placed 2nd may have beaten her if she had not doped (I didn't check the time results, perhaps they were way behind).

why are you lumping Ethiopia in with the Kenyans? You can make the 'no testing' argument, but the AIU is busting most of the Kenyans, not the Kenyan anti-doping agency, and the AIU aren't busting any Ethiopians, are they? Kenya has a culture of doping, Ethiopia doesn't.

Shelby still has to be in the testing pool whilst banned, if I understand right?

If I were her and bearing in mind I've already crossed the moral boundary line of deciding I am going to dope a long time ago, I'd continue to microdose consistently because what do I have to lose and because that's already my habit. I'd just be more careful not to overdo it it like last time.

So she should continue to progress rapidly if she continues to train properly.

Nice, a Plan-B Saugy article on "male subjects", lol.

I doubt that she'll progress anymore, IF she cuts back on doping.

She has progressed. Several years of uninterrupted training does that for some people.

Based on what? Are you following her training on strava?

You don't seem to understand that she has family and friends and acquaintances. L

I have a real question, not sarcasm, why would an elite pro race a very small, non-competitive race with absolutely no-one to push her in the slightest?

It would be like she just chose a loop to time trial by herself?

Unless she is trying to put it on the record on purpose, to have someone independently time it who has no choice in doing so.

And that, that specifically, is completely against the spirit on her ban.

She is trying to say she doesn't respect the ban by racing, even an unsanctioned uncertified race.

And that is not cool, it makes her more dislikeable, not endearing herself.

Why? Because she's not a good person. Doping is fundamentally a dishonest act; it is fraud. You win by cheating. Fraudsters are among the worst people in society as they lack a moral compass. There is nothing special or unique about a cheater refusing to admit they cheated and convincing people who care about them that there must be some terrible mistake, and even flaunting the behaviour. Cheaters enjoy that they cheated to win. They just don't care the way a normal person would care. The only thing that is important to a cheater is themselves and getting what they want.

The only somewhat interesting thing in all of this are her defenders. The lengths they go to avoid the most simple answer is remarkable. Mostly funny, often tragic. We live in the age of conspiracy theories and almost every mundane thing that happens which makes the news now has someone out there who will twist it into something else which allows that person to feel like they have some superior knowledge. How did we get to the point where so many people are so insecure that they so desperately need the conspiracy to be true? We live in some weird times.

It made me like her even more. You are in the minority.

I see people talking about "innocent until proven guilty." Where is this concept found in T&F regulations? Curious.

Not sure what 8k Okoboji Champs is, but that's what she is doing next.