Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unofficial time (just finished)

I ain't saying he cheated or didn't cheat. I will put up $2000 to the charity of Meza's choice if he can drop a sub 3 marathon this fall with an observation runner.

If he chooses to take me up on the offer, and cannot achieve sub 3, I ask that he donate $2000 to the Brave Like Gabe charity.

How about it Frank?

I don't think he can complete 400 meters at 6:30 pace. In these short segments before the timing mats, I think he is running HARD just to maintain 8:30-9:30 pace. These cheating marathons are basically fartlek workouts for him. If he were capable of running any distance at 6:30 pace, I think he'd start running later and run faster just to keep up appearances.

Amby Burfoot’s article explains why Frank didn’t run 2016 and Roderick being surprised by Frank’s late entry. I would have seen him on the course if he had run 2016. Frank knows LA is watching him and signs up last minute - hoping they don’t have time to catch it/reach out to him about running with an observer.

How much of an advantage would PEDs provide to an advanced age marathoner? Conceivably, could someone drug themselves into physical shape to pull off what you guys are placing wagers on?

"I've already emailed the fourth place finisher, but not heard back yet. The second placer has too common a name to reliably track down.

However, have suggested to the guy who contacted me to share the details if he happens to know the others."

....The 2nd place finisher- Dan Adams- has a profile on mylife.com. It shows a recent PO Box address, but no phone number or email that I can find. I think maybe you have to subscribe to get access to more info.

j.geilstoo wrote:

jesseriley wrote:

I’ve noticed that people who’ve scammed this many become untouchable in many ways, because outing them would make too many people look bad.

False. Kip was outed with irrefutable evidence that he could not explain. Other people looking bad has nothing to do with it.

False, yourself. I agree with jesseriley. Kip had no high-profile, publicly-identified defenders. FM has a medical profession and SJW reputation that are at risk by this charade. FM has Bland, Diaz, whatever Loyola HS administration, with their OWN reputations at stake, and races/race directors (with THEIR own reputations at stake) of 10 years worth of supposed steadily-improving times by FM, without their questioning of results. Props to CIM for their disqualification of FM. Shame on FM for his response to that, which was, basically, "Oh, well."

According to the article this is the way FM trains:

- 100 miles per week for several months before his marathons

- pretty fast 8-milers with the high school team but no speed work

- lot of hills

- long runs with some of the boys in the parks on Sundays.

Very convincing. I would argue that way. Only the usual high altitude training in Flagstaff is missing.

I am a former Loyola Cub. Frank claims to run 100 mpw during marathon season and does "fast 8 milers" with the high school team. Neither are true. He would come run with us on tuesday and thursday afternoons at the parks, most of which were no more than 6 miles. half the time he didnt show up and it was another coach because he would be busy at work. now i'm sure he'd run some miles outside of coming to our practices, but no way was it 100mpw.

I don't remember a single fast 8 miler with him. he would send us off on intervals most of the time or sometimes send us off on fartleks, but I ran on the varsity team for four years and never once saw him dip below probably 8:15 - 8:00 pace. I am planning on stopping by a summer practice with Loyola within the next few weeks, and I've spoken to diaz recently but have not brought up the subject over the phone. I am going to ask him about it when I see them. I assume FM is not running with them right now, likely hiding from the trails in case someone in the running community who knows of his cheating spots him.

fred wrote:

26.2 @ 6:36 at 70. Anybody have a film clip showing his biomechanics?

There’s a YouTube vid with him doing some “barefoot” running . I don’t have time to link it but you can find it easily. Nothing suggests he’s sub3.

I am heading out for a morning run. I read the Amby Burfoot "take" on this. Amby is a former Boston Marathon winner. Highly respected. Yet, when it comes to something like this, he is just like many of us...that is --- fascinated by it. And excited that we could have a new superstar. I respect his (and LAM's) simple "what now" solution. Have an observer runner. Especially, since FM had no objection. If FM was a fake, obviously he would have not run. LAM dropped the ball in 2017, 2018 and 2019. If it were me, I would have "proven my innocence" this way. I have run alot of half-marathons, 10 milers and 10k's in my 4 years I have been running races. I tend to glom on to other runners more often than not. You know run most of the race with them. It would not be that hard to get someone to vouch for me. Frank Meza surely could do the same. Simple solution. Now that I know Frank Meza is aware of this thread, I say to you Frank....just get a couple runners who ran with you for a few miles to vouch for you. After all, this is about much more than running. Your integrity is being challenged. If it were me, and I was innocent...it would be my life mission to straighten this out. The upside being that perhaps your secret wish that in spite of your humble nature...do you not want everyone to know how fast you are. Especially if you worked hard for it by running a hundred miles a week. That impresses me more than the marathon times for a 70 year old. I think Gene Dykes only runs around half that amount. I run around 40-50 miles a week. (mostly tempo)

Noah Webster wrote:

False, yourself. I agree with jesseriley. Kip had no high-profile, publicly-identified defenders.

You mean you don't count "Dan Baxley" and his sweary outburst? *shocked face*

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

Noah Webster wrote:

False, yourself. I agree with jesseriley. Kip had no high-profile, publicly-identified defenders.

You mean you don't count "Dan Baxley" and his sweary outburst? *shocked face*

Without much in the way of "evidence," Dan Baxley has little more cred than Franklin Baxley.

PEDs might turn, I dunno, a 3:15 marathoner into a 2:50 marathoner. I don't think there is any amount of PEDs that will turn a 6 hour marathoner into a 2:50 marathoner. This guy would be finishing in the 5-6 hour range if he didn't cheat. That's why this is such a farce. This isn't some guy trimming bits and pieces here and there to cut 20 minutes. This is a guy cutting his time in half.

Thanks! Then there are all the “charities,” etc who would defend FM, who thinks he’s Jesus the Healer. It’s a Puke-a-thon, not a marathon.

Stranger and Stranger wrote:

This story just keeps getting stranger. Lalo Diaz is a high school coaching legend. He has coached some of the nation’s top prep harriers and teams. I’m stunned to hear that he left a threatening message for Amby Burfoot.

Lalo is a bright guy. If he looked closely at Derek Murphy’s articles he would know that Meza cheated. Appears to me that his friendship with Meza is clouding his judgment on this one. Sad.

Found this article from 2011 on Flotrack where it mentions Diaz and "Doc Mesa" as seeing the location of the school as an asset instead of a problem and actively developing their team using its geographical difficulties to their advantage.

Sounds like they were/are very tight and probably explains the ultra-defensive stance. Note explains, not excuses.

What would St. Ignatious think? wrote:

It's not hard. wrote:

You don't have to be a member of my community or any other, just an ability to use the internet:

https://www.loyolahs.edu/people/frank-kozakowski/

Thanks for the link. I have sent an email to Principle Kozakowski requesting that the reference to Frank Meza's world record be removed from the Loyola High School website.

However, I think any such request would have greater impact if it came from someone with actual ties to Loyola.

Principle Kozakowski responded quickly and directly to my email -- props to him.

He is directing Loyola's communication team website to address the issue of their website recognition of Dr. Meza's wold record time at Phoenix .

I love this quote from Frank from the article: “If I had known about the questions raised by my fast marathons, I would have slowed down "

Translation: I would have driven slower between timing mats.

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It's encouraging to see that Amby Burfoot took notice last April before Derek Murphy's involvement. Burfoot is one of the most respected figures in running so this shouldn't be dismissed as insignificant by anyone in the running community (still very quiet from Letsrun, the supposed bastions of integrity based running/racing and Runner's World). Burfoot's approach to the extraordinary pathos of Dr. Meza lacks the tearing at flesh that so many want but lays out a few things:

LA has known about him for years but didn't preemptively act : Ok, I can give them a soft pass since at least they/someone called him out. However, now being presented with incontrovertible proof, they must still DQ. If not done immediately, it's important for the 60 and 70 AGE place finishers from all years contact the RD, demand a DQ and, or insist on a refund of race fees. Phoenix as well (frankly, Long Beach, Oakland, Santa Clarita, too although Murphy hasn't dived into the details with those races.. YET) Anyway, keep up the pressure on the RDs of these races.

This "aw shucks, I'm just doing this for fun" routine is passive aggressive nonsense. "I would have slowed down if I had known....." So obnoxious! Frank, shows he has little if any respect for the true 60 plus/70 plus warriors who are putting in real mileage and racing honestly in LA and other Meza attended (obviously not fully if at all raced) events.

I think Mr. Philip Bland and Mr. Lalo Diaz would ask for a mulligan: How anyone can defend him NOW with evidence that is definitely not circumstantial and would, at the least, get him dq'd at most legitimate marathons is beyond me. Again, kudos to CIM.

Nevertheless, he's not doing any "challenge" race. If he races again, it will be presented prior to the event or even after as a "fun run" at a maximum pace he's capable of like a 4 hour or more marathon pace or slower (and there's absolutely no shame in that since that's an extraordinary pace for a 70 plus-er) Frankly, I really don't care if there's a 0001% chance he can do a sub 3, 3:15, 3:30 race. He cheated and has been caught. Frank, if you care about the kids you supposedly mentor, the sport and your standing in the community, admit your transgression at these races that Derek Murphy has documented (and others). Explain why you did it, how to avoid it (i.e. therapy) etc. Do continue to run-- enjoy the hills --and maybe find peace and enjoyment running, jogging and maybe being anonymous . Or you can continue this charade by pulling decent people down with you like Misters Bland and Diaz.

sancreed.. wrote:

I love this quote from Frank from the article: “If I had known about the questions raised by my fast marathons, I would have slowed down "

Translation: I would have driven slower between timing mats.

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And if he had run much slower in the video we do have he would stopped.