Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

Attacking the source? As our resident expert on logical fallacies I thought you would know better.

Russia can do a negotiated surrender today or surrender without negotiation months from now. Bottom line, this will end with Russia looking longingly at North Korea excesses! In a war of attrition, I'm putting money on the side with unlimited funding and access to equipment (hint, that's not Russia).

"We told them not to do it, that it was dangerous, but they ignored us.”
Russian soldiers trampled over the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, one of the most toxic places on earth, potentially exposing themselves to harmful radiation.

A Russian soldier from a chemical, biological and nuclear protection unit picked up a source of cobalt-60 at one waste site with his bare hands, exposing himself to so much radiation in a few seconds that it went off the scales of a Geiger counter."

Only 1 side benefits from mass killings of civilians and it isn't Russia.

Not only do the Russians not use the Tochka U, they don't even have any forces within its 120km range in the southwest where it hit from.

This thread shows reliably that virtue is hate and emotion is truth, in this modern fantasy world

Ah, now you are letting your true, feminine feelings show. Good for you, comrade!

No one here was mentioning the MH17 shoot down.

It does not follow that a position on the MH17 shoot-down regulates thinking on a Train station attack almost 8 years later. The events are largely disconnected.

One can uphold the Russians are guilty of neither event, one event, or both.

We've had years to piece together (literally) what happened with MH17.

There can be no reasonable doubt it was accidentally shot down by Donbass Separatists, or off-book Russian Soldiers working with Separatists.

We know a train station in Kramatorsk was fired on. Debris identifies the ordinance used as Tochka-U missiles. We know one missile had "For Children" painted on the side in Cyrillic. According to Wiki, in the last 6 weeks, the Ukraine side has fired 4 Tochka U missiles and the Russian side fired one Tochka 9M79. Prior to today, common understanding was the Russian side had retired or sold its Tochka U missiles in favour of newer, improved models.

From there, it's guess work.

Examining motive and opportunity, it seems more probable than not to me that the Ukraine side intentionally launched missiles as a false flag operation.

The Ukraine side has lost control of missiles before in this conflict, having them strike friendly territory, but given two missiles are said to have been used, this seems no accident.

I could be wrong and may change my opinion as more information becomes available. I am not jumping to conclusions, I am making them and remaking them.

Even a major news agency is on the fence, "Reuters was unable to verify what happened in Kramatorsk"

Actually, many on here have mastered the English language. Perhaps even you could, with a little bit of effort.

Go for it, comrade.

My understanding, and I can't find sources to verify this at the moment because everything I search for just talks about the train station attack, is that this is an expression that dates back to the Soviet Union and should be read as, "This is revenge for what you did to our children," not "This is targeted at your children."

Attacking the source is a logical fallacy when it's irrelevant to the argument.

Impuning and Refuting are different things.

It does not follow all cited sources are equally factual, unbiased, and beyond question.

This entire post which was replied to was a single link to a news article. I did read the article - it had a grainy zoomed crop of a photo showing a military vehicle of a type that carries rockets and attributes a time and location - in Belarus if I recall correctly.

I did check many other articles on the site and noted it has a heavy propaganda slant in favour of Ukraine and generally low journalistic standards.

While this does not prevent it from having good information or balanced reporting, it makes it less likely.

In addition to the fact that I was simply pointing out that Wigins wasn't necessarily correct. In fact, Wigins seems to be relying on Russia's statements. Hard to see how my source, however flawed isn't more credible than Wigins has proved to be over the years.

Russians are accused of making the attack.

If the intent of "For Children" on the side of a missile is meant to convey it's a revenge response for loss of Russian children, it still makes no sense.

Russians haven't lost children due to Ukraine attacks.

This Special Military Operation doesn't provide many examples of Russia backing off after doing something that prompts condemnation. They just deny, blame the Ukrainians, NATO and the USA and keep bombing and killing. It is obvious that Putin cares little about what the world thinks at this point.

It's an old Soviet expression and not meant to be taken literally.

The pentagon disagrees with your assessment of this missle strike. The Kremlin agrees with you. Same as it always was...

Did you watch the video linked to in the article that you dismissed? It's from several weeks ago and likely shows tochka-u missiles on vehicles with Russian markings (there are a few other possible vehicles, but some of the details aren't quite right for them). Obviously the video could have been from 10 years ago (but the weather in the video matches the time and location claimed), and it would take a lot more work to verify that the video is recent, but it certainly seems plausible that Russia is still operating tochka-u missiles.

Wikipedia even claims that Russia fired a tochka variant in Donetsk on Feb. 24th.

They also dug trenches in contaminated soil to protect themselves. Several of the radiation diggers were hospitalized soon after. Идиоты!

msn.com

Russian Troops Sickened by Contaminated Chernobyl Soil: Official

The soldiers had been reportedly digging in the Red Forest, which lies in the exclusion zone around the site of the nuclear power plant.

Link:www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-t...

What's suggested. If Russian committed war crimes, they can only be to blame for all war crimes? We have seen both sides commit war crimes, so that logic doesn't play out.

Anyway, it's not proof.

It's inference.

And makes sense.

It suggests motive to for Russians to curtail, not increase, activity harming civilians.

If you a cop is tailing you, you don't speed and check text messages.

If this isn't plain, you're not thinking objectively or rationally.

Three prior messages posted state (Wiki indicates) Ukraine fired 4 Tochka U missiles and the Russian side fired one Tochka 9M79 - the variant noted.

I don't discount Russia has returned Tochka U missiles to service, but there isn't good evidence shared, or that I can find, to back that up, at least so far.

The previously linked article's evidence is not substantive and not attributed or verified. The site seems generally prone to presenting evidence supportive of the Ukraine and critical of Russia, indicating potential reporting bias.