Geremew and Wasihun both likely doped to gills but Ethiopians have been good at getting past the testing.
Kipchoge too big to fail?
Geremew and Wasihun both likely doped to gills but Ethiopians have been good at getting past the testing.
Kipchoge too big to fail?
Just a small question wrote:
Which E African record-holders?
Armstronglivs wrote:
As yet another E African record-holder is pinged for a doping violation I can understand the excitement it generates on these boards. But as the discussion broadens to the subject of doping generally I cannot help but think we are merely trying to estimate the extent of the submerged part of the ice-berg. Whatever that may be, an iceberg is what it is. Enormous.
We are also probably realistically beyond arguing about the colour, as it were, of the iceberg. The long history of doping has shown that it is not a racial issue as such - even though some countries have appeared to dope more than others at certain times. It's a sporting, not a cultural issue, and in sport winning is often everything. That mindset can be found anywhere and at any level. Many competitors will dope - if they can get away with it.
For those who like to pretend to themselves that the sport is fine, how would you feel if the dopers were members of a political party or government who were busted for bribery or other such corruption offences? Would you trust in the integrity of such a party or government? Yet you continue to believe in the sport.
The issues are in no way confined to running. I have just been watching a top -level professional tennis match. More unbelievable tireless power. The boat for drug-free sport has long since sailed.
Try Kenya. You could also read after the first line.
a guessing game wrote:
Geremew and Wasihun both likely doped to gills but Ethiopians have been good at getting past the testing.
Kipchoge too big to fail?
Kipchoge is the Bolt of marathons. Completely and totally protected by the monied interests. Openly dopes with no consequence.
You said "yet another". This looks like the first record holder. Can you name the others?
Armstronglivs wrote:
Just a small question wrote:
Which E African record-holders?
Try Kenya. You could also read after the first line.
That's not an answer wrote:
You said "yet another". This looks like the first record holder. Can you name the others?
Why do you troll Armstronglivs?
Jeptoo (Boston marathon course record holder) and Kiprop (Monaco 1500 course record holder) are among the obvious answers.
casual obsever wrote:
That's not an answer wrote:
You said "yet another". This looks like the first record holder. Can you name the others?
Why do you troll Armstronglivs?
Jeptoo (Boston marathon course record holder) and Kiprop (Monaco 1500 course record holder) are among the obvious answers.
It's beginning to sound like rekrunner. Lol.
Very interesting report here:
The first accredited WADA lab to handle & analyze blood samples for the ABP was opened last September (2018) in Nairobi. I'm assuming they didn't have this capability prior to 2018...or were they using another county's lab? And if they were using another country's lab in the past why then 3 Kenyan ABP cases in just the 3 months? It's seems as if the new lab in Nairobi actually starting collecting & processing samples for the ABP data base resulting in these first cases.
The report also says the lab will be used to also process samples from neighboring Ethiopia and Uganda. It look's like a state of the art facility and it sounds like Kenya is serious about anti-doping.
Interesting interview with the doctor who oversees the new lab:
Here We Go Again wrote:
casual obsever wrote:
Why do you troll Armstronglivs?
Jeptoo (Boston marathon course record holder) and Kiprop (Monaco 1500 course record holder) are among the obvious answers.
It's beginning to sound like rekrunner. Lol.
So you need to count every individual paling before you realise you're looking at a fence. The point about the sheer extent of doping today clearly went right over your head.
rojo wrote:
To say he came out of nowhere may be a tiny bit misleading (although as Jonathan Gault said, "I follow running for a living and I've never heard of him." )
Before the WR he had run 27:44 for 10k, 59:36 for the half and 2:05:26 for the marathon.
The 1st results we see for the 29 year old are in 2015 - 2:11:36 for 3rd in Rabat. In 2016, he ran 59:36 for the half in Copenhagen. In 2017, he ran a road 10k in 27:44, 60:06 for the half and 2:05:26 for martheathon before setting the WR last year in the half and running 2:04:16 in Abu Dhabi.
It used to be so great to see some underdog running the race of their lives. Unfortunately, that is now lost.
Late 20s-early 30s breakthroughs are always the most suspicious ones to me.
I don't understand the hostility. You seem like a guy with some knowledge across many sports, and going back many decades back to the 60s. I understood everything else in your post, but not "East African record holder". Regarding record holders, the only name I could think of was Boulami, but he is not East African. Maybe a woman like Aregawi, but she is not a record holder. Is Casual Observer right? Did you mean Jeptoo and Kiprop and course records?
Armstronglivs wrote:
Here We Go Again wrote:
It's beginning to sound like rekrunner. Lol.
So you need to count every individual paling before you realise you're looking at a fence. The point about the sheer extent of doping today clearly went right over your head.
El Keniano wrote:
Can’t do this anymore. This is my final post on this site. It’s been interesting being part of this community for so long. Enjoyed the many great discussions about running. However, must be said, that my opinions about a certain section of the LRC posters, athletics government and media will never change.
Peace ✌?
El K. - please do not abstain from posting here on Letsrun. Your contibutions are valued.
Thank you.
Ghost in China
El K has departed the scene, he knows there are more busts on the way and it gets to the point where it becomes impossible to defend the indefensible.
I sure he'll be posting with non-registered handles though.
El white boy right now after the Kiptum bust:
https://jokideo.com/wp-content/uploads/meme/2014/06/Reaction-pic---Crying-meme.jpg
Clearly you can run 2:01 clean but need EPO to run 58!
El Keniano wrote:
Can’t do this anymore. This is my final post on this site. It’s been interesting being part of this community for so long. Enjoyed the many great discussions about running. However, must be said, that my opinions about a certain section of the LRC posters, athletics government and media will never change.
Peace ✌?
It must be wearing to be continually proved wrong.
Let's Get To The Bottom Of This wrote:
"According to Pineda, Kiptum was notified of irregularities in his ABP on March 27 by the AIU and asked to respond with an explanation. Kiptum emailed the AIU back on April 1, writing that he did not have an explanation as he claimed not to have doped."
It's such a shame that Radcliffe did not release to the public all of her blood values which would have convincingly explained her innocence as they did to the IAAF. Innocent non-doping athletes such as Kiptum would then be able to explain that their bio passport readings are just an innocent misunderstanding and are only the result of dehydration after hard training at altitude plus the Kenyan lab technicians might not be too good at calibrating their lab equipment...
Besides even if Kiptum WAS doping, Canova and Rekrunner have proved, from extensive studies on other endurance runners, that the extra mass of red blood cells would have been just slowing Kiptum down so that Kiptum clean would have actually been able to run FASTER than his WR!
Lol. Now you've piqued my curiousity.
Here We Go Again wrote:
casual obsever wrote:
Why do you troll Armstronglivs?
Jeptoo (Boston marathon course record holder) and Kiprop (Monaco 1500 course record holder) are among the obvious answers.
It's beginning to sound like rekrunner. Lol.
Doping prevalence is a serious problem, and dopers should be punished. Multi-colored Iceberg. Nice imagery. The doping problem is as deep as an enormous iceberg -- actual depth not important. Some competitors from countries of every color dope in every sport at any level, because it is human nature. The last boat of drug-free sport was the Titanic. Sorry to disappoint, but I have no further comments or needs for clarification. Interest un-piqued. Please carry on without me.
Armstronglivs wrote:
As yet another E African record-holder is pinged for a doping violation I can understand the excitement it generates on these boards. But as the discussion broadens to the subject of doping generally I cannot help but think we are merely trying to estimate the extent of the submerged part of the ice-berg. Whatever that may be, an iceberg is what it is. Enormous.
We are also probably realistically beyond arguing about the colour, as it were, of the iceberg. The long history of doping has shown that it is not a racial issue as such - even though some countries have appeared to dope more than others at certain times. It's a sporting, not a cultural issue, and in sport winning is often everything. That mindset can be found anywhere and at any level. Many competitors will dope - if they can get away with it.
For those who like to pretend to themselves that the sport is fine, how would you feel if the dopers were members of a political party or government who were busted for bribery or other such corruption offences? Would you trust in the integrity of such a party or government? Yet you continue to believe in the sport.
The issues are in no way confined to running. I have just been watching a top -level professional tennis match. More unbelievable tireless power. The boat for drug-free sport has long since sailed.
Better than data points of one athlete, many papers that describe the various problems that undermined the ABP, and explain the various models of the ABP, are already available to the public (some might require a fee). Information about misunderstandings and dehydration and calibration is already out there in the public. Putting aside any judgement of Kiptum -- innocent athletes unlucky enough to be presented with the burden of explaining ABP irregularities need expert scientific and legal support to form a proper defence. DISCLAIMER: any sympathies and concerns expressed in the comments above are reserved for truly "innocent" athletes, in order to achieve the higher aspirations of fairness and justice. Athletes who violate anti-doping rules should be caught and punished -- no apologies offered. SIDE NOTE: I did not prove any effect, positive or negative, of extra mass of red blood cells.
bio passport madness wrote:
Let's Get To The Bottom Of This wrote:
"According to Pineda, Kiptum was notified of irregularities in his ABP on March 27 by the AIU and asked to respond with an explanation. Kiptum emailed the AIU back on April 1, writing that he did not have an explanation as he claimed not to have doped."
It's such a shame that Radcliffe did not release to the public all of her blood values which would have convincingly explained her innocence as they did to the IAAF. Innocent non-doping athletes such as Kiptum would then be able to explain that their bio passport readings are just an innocent misunderstanding and are only the result of dehydration after hard training at altitude plus the Kenyan lab technicians might not be too good at calibrating their lab equipment...
Besides even if Kiptum WAS doping, Canova and Rekrunner have proved, from extensive studies on other endurance runners, that the extra mass of red blood cells would have been just slowing Kiptum down so that Kiptum clean would have actually been able to run FASTER than his WR!
rekrunner wrote:
SIDE NOTE: I did not prove any effect, positive or negative, of extra mass of red blood cells.
Correct. You don't prove, you obfuscate.
Case in point, falsely calling Canova's propaganda "the observed reality" because it fits your agenda:
rekrunner wrote:You also avoided the observed reality: "if we look at WHEN some of the top Kenyans was caught, every time was in the WORST period of their career?"
And come with direct lies against better knowledge:
rekrunner wrote:
The fact is that white people got slower in the 90's, despite the availability and untestability of EPO.
