I think you underestimate how much 5K times can become slower relative to marathons for old guys. Last year at age 70 I ran three marathons under three hours, with the fastest being 2:54:23, but a 17:40 5K is laughably out of my range. My 5K PR was six years ago (19:01), and I just can't seem to better it, although I still harbor hopes of getting it down to 18:50 or so.
That just might be a bit of hyperbole! Even if my Jacksonville marathon were ratified, the scoreboard of world age group records would read: "Ed Whitlock - 35, Gene Dykes - 1" I've got a looooong way to go to be compared to him.
Agreed - even though his splits in this year's LA Marathon are less wildly fluctuating than before, they are still not right. He yo-yo's quite a bit, especially between 15 and 30k, where he slows down by 1:20, then speeds up by 1:20 for consecutive 5k splits. Some defenders might try to play that off as normal, but it isn't. Usually when a marathoner slows by that much, it's a one-way trend; there is no speeding back up. And it's especially unlikely to have such variation in a race in which he sets an age-group world best, or close to it - everything would have to go perfectly, unless he's actually far superior to the previous record-holders like Ed Whitlock and can afford to just mess around, take a dump, etc.
I've looked and looked at these splits, and I really can't find anything suspicious in them. When I beat the M70 world record at Jacksonville, my splits were very even because the course was virtually flat. His fast splits in the middle and end coincide with downhill portions of the course.
I really think you need to look at the elevation profile of the course. His splits look totally reasonable to me. For instance, the 15 to 20K split is mostly uphill, and the 20-25K split is markedly downhill. I'm really looking forward to meeting him at a race one of these days, particularly 2020 London (I hear he will be at Berlin this fall). I hope one of us will have the chance to remove that pesky asterix for having beaten Ed's world record but not setting a new one. His course was not record eligible and my race was not sanctioned.
A cheater that has obviously brought in a crew of people to help him with this. A doctor would have the money to pay people to do this. So pathetic!
No, I'm afraid he isn't on to something here! I'm the other guy who broke Ed Whitlock's age group record last year at Jacksonville, only to discover that the race wasn't sanctioned. I ran my 2:54:23 less than two months after a 2:55:19 at Toronto, so it's totally reasonable. And not only that, (drum roll please), just two weekends before Jacksonville I ran both a 50K and a competitive California International Marathon on consecutive days.
Gene, thanks for the insights. Since this is LRC, prepare for the topic of the thread to shift from course-cutting to doping and T usage in master's racing in 3...2...1...
I know it's difficult to believe that one could run faster marathons at age 70 than age 60 - heck, even *I* can't believe it sometimes. But the fact is that I've been getting faster every year since my first marathon at age 58. My PR at age 60 was 3:22 and I've improved almost every year since then, with my 2:54:23 at Jacksonville at age 70 my current PR. In my case, it's easy to find the reason for my marked improvement the last five years - I hired a coach. Maybe Frank has found more time or a new method of training that accounts for his recent improvement. I certainly look forward to running head to head with him somewhere soon.
James d1 is my cell phone, but this is Roderick Powell. I see all these posts by “Gene Dykes”. If this is really Gene , ( pardon me if I’m skeptical) than surely you would have contacted Frank to congratulate him after Phoenix, and than again after LA. How did those conversations go. Does he want to run a race you’re in? Please let us all know..
Yeah, I made sure to dust off my suit of armor before posting...
Flying around the world...calling each other...hiring coaches...knowing each other’s race schedules...
WTF is the matter with you people? U r pathetic
WTF is the matter with you people? wrote:
Flying around the world...calling each other...hiring coaches...knowing each other’s race schedules...
WTF is the matter with you people? U r pathetic
Or maybe we just like running and racing?
Nope, SG was right. You have issues. You’re way too serious. You’re not anything like Ed was. The guy ran around his wife’s grave, for God’s sake.
JustGene wrote:
I know it's difficult to believe that one could run faster marathons at age 70 than age 60 - heck, even *I* can't believe it sometimes. But the fact is that I've been getting faster every year since my first marathon at age 58. My PR at age 60 was 3:22 and I've improved almost every year since then, with my 2:54:23 at Jacksonville at age 70 my current PR. In my case, it's easy to find the reason for my marked improvement the last five years - I hired a coach. Maybe Frank has found more time or a new method of training that accounts for his recent improvement. I certainly look forward to running head to head with him somewhere soon.
Gene, stop being an apologist. Not only is Frank Meza racing way faster at 70 than at 60, but he has been racing since the 1970's. That doesn't add up.
Gene Dykes, you weren't racing in the 1970's. Gene, please respond to my unquestionable logic.
Thanks.
https://www.athlinks.com/athletes/375783990/resultsWTF is wrote:
Nope, SG was right. You have issues. You’re way too serious. You’re not anything like Ed was. The guy ran around his wife’s grave, for God’s sake.
Your perceptiveness about what kind of people we are and why we run is amazing. How do you do it without even knowing us?
“Flying around the world...calling each other...hiring coaches...knowing each other’s race schedules...“
Nowhere in there did I mention why you run. It’s not the running that evidences the issue. We all run..
Typical avoidance behavior. I wouldn’t expect you to understand what I was talking about anyway. I shudder to think that I agree with SG on anything, but finally he’s got a point. He is finally qualified as something, a geezer.
Seriously, I think that anybody who does such things in pursuit of something not really important has obsessive compulsive problems. I’m only half your age but I hope that I don’t end up like you guys. You’re like the weirdos who have huge model train dioramas in their basements and get together at night dressed as train engineers to do, ahh, whatever it is they do.
HI there. Yes, as soon as I heard about his Phoenix marathon, I tried to find contact information to gab with him. In particular, I wanted him to get signed up for the Marathon Majors age group championship to be held in London in 2020. But, I was unable to find any way to contact him. Do you know a way I can reach out? P.S., I'll be sure to tell my wife of your suspicions that there might be an impostor in bed with her.
Ed Whitlock ran incredible marathon times over a 40 year period. It can be done.
"You have issues. You’re way too serious." kinda sounds like saying we run because we have issues. I'd hash this out more with you but I have to go get my train engineer costume from the cleaners. Perhaps you could come to a group therapy session for obsessive compulsive message board arguing and we could all get better together.