My goal of Sub 15:00 5k

JS. Is it possible to consolidate this into a weekly update that shows the full week of training. It is a bit tough to follow as just one-off workouts as it all matters.

For what it is worth I ran a 10x800 @ CV pace off 80s rest averaging about 2:36 a week 10 days after running 15:49 and 6 weeks before running 15:23.

I have a very hard time believing that is LT pace for your athlete but sounds like a strong workout.

It`s very easy to transfer to the individual runner to get his/her best paces. Kevin did a maxVO2 interval 20 x 400m at 73-74 sec on Tuesday this week, and now on this Friday the LT interval 11 x 800m at 2.39-2:43 min + a 1600m at 5:24. Then the days between just easy steady running 50-70 min and on Sunday a day off to recharge his batteries to 100 % . Many runners and coaches overlooks the importance of rest and recovery.My old cliche` " It`s not mainly a question of how many miles you run, it`s of more importance how you run your miles. "

highhoppingworm wrote:

JS. Is it possible to consolidate this into a weekly update that shows the full week of training. It is a bit tough to follow as just one-off workouts as it all matters.

For what it is worth I ran a 10x800 @ CV pace off 80s rest averaging about 2:36 a week 10 days after running 15:49 and 6 weeks before running 15:23.

I have a very hard time believing that is LT pace for your athlete but sounds like a strong workout.

Hi highhoppingworm, the 5k that I ran last weekend was on a rolling course (onthegomap.com says ~200ft elevation) on a pretty hot day, so I think today's 800 repeats are a lot closer to my fitness than what the 16:11 suggests.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

My old cliche` " It`s not mainly a question of how many miles you run, it`s of more importance how you run your miles. "

It's not your old cliché, moron.

Kevin the JS Runner wrote:

highhoppingworm wrote:

JS. Is it possible to consolidate this into a weekly update that shows the full week of training. It is a bit tough to follow as just one-off workouts as it all matters.

For what it is worth I ran a 10x800 @ CV pace off 80s rest averaging about 2:36 a week 10 days after running 15:49 and 6 weeks before running 15:23.

I have a very hard time believing that is LT pace for your athlete but sounds like a strong workout.

Hi highhoppingworm, the 5k that I ran last weekend was on a rolling course (onthegomap.com says ~200ft elevation) on a pretty hot day, so I think today's 800 repeats are a lot closer to my fitness than what the 16:11 suggests.

I would totally that 5:20 pace is a reasonable if stretch 5m - 10k pace. I do not, however, see any way that someone with a 5:18-5:22 pace LT range is running 16:11 regardless of weather etc. sorry. Additionally, 60s+ on 800s at LT pace is a mountain of rest and would easily allow you to run faster than LT. Ask yourself this... could you taper and go out and run a 53:20 10 mile and then carry it forward another mile? In my (admittedly limited) experience it is too easy to cheat on short LT cruise intervals and convince yourself you are in better shape than you are.

Sounds like you are making good progress. I encourage you to post here weekly with your previous weeks training.

36/M/183 lbs/6’2”

Goal Race: Providence Downtown 5k on 9/18 with a couple of tune ups in August and Early September

Goal Time: 14:5x

Current PR: 15:23

Kind of a ho hum week for me. Great weather early week for Wednesday workout then it got super hot and humid over the weekend. Tough week of sleep due to kids and watching the trials. I think I am going to run the USATF NE Track Champs on 7/31. Debating the 1500 or 5000. Trying to find other tune of races but it’s a little sparse out there still. If anyone knows of anything in August or early September around Boston let me know!

M - 6 @ 8:08. Avg HR 143

T - 8 @ 7:57. Avg HR 143

W - 2 up + 1 aerobic tempo @ 5:31. 4 miles continuous of 200 @ goal 5k pace/1400 float @ 5:25-5:35 pace. 2 down.

Ended up hitting 21:44 overall and felt very strong. Will do this workout 3 more times upping the distance at goal 5k pace to 400/600/800 reducing the float to 1200/1000/800.

33.5/4:52.7 (5:26.2)

34.6/4:55.7 (5:30.3)

35.1/4:51.2 (5:26.3)

34.8/4:46.3 (5:21.1)

Th - 9 @ 7:26. Avg HR 142

Fr - 6 @ 7:05. Avg HR 146. 11x100m on the minute. 13.5-14.5 then a 12 flat on the last one. Jog in start. 2 down.

Sa - 9 @ 7:48. Avg HR 146. Very hot.

Su - 2 up. 8 aerobic tempo as 3/2/2/1. 2 down. Was supposed to be continuous but weather was rough out there door (feels like 82 w/ 75 dew point). Wasn’t feeling great so decided to break it up. Ended up having to take a longer pit stop after the first 3. 7 minutes total of non running with most of that after the first 3. 5:51/5:49/5:51, 5:43/5:44, 5:43/5:43, 5:28. Felt in control. Happy to just get some volume in at a reasonable clip. I really run poorly in heat and humidity. 186.8 pounds before bed last night and 178 pounds even post run.

Total - 62 miles

When I analyse this kind of training you are doing , one word comes to my mind, .... unstructured!

You will probably have a good chance to improve this way too, but the risk that there will be no improvement, or just negligible is about the same...

What you need is a well balanced structured program up to your shape for the day where you know exactly the corresponding race results.

This, running your individual best paces in training even boost your confidence and mental strength.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

but the risk that there will be no improvement, or just negligible is about the same...

So his system is better than DANCAN, whose runners stagnate and then get worse?

Thanks for the precious input, Moronsson.

JS. I’m working with a coach, with a plan written out through the end of September. This is literally the opposite of “unstructured”. I would be interested in how you would defend that statement. As far as progress, in 2 years I have gone from barely being able to run 3 miles to a 15:23 5k so your comments about no improvement seem pretty off base. Yes I will probably begin seeing diminishing returns as I get faster and Father Time will probably start catching up with me but I would be pretty disappointed to not continue to PR each cycle for a few more cycles at least.

I politely request that you exit this thread. You don’t offer value. Thank you.

highhoppingworm wrote:

JS. I’m working with a coach, with a plan written out through the end of September. This is literally the opposite of “unstructured”. I would be interested in how you would defend that statement. As far as progress, in 2 years I have gone from barely being able to run 3 miles to a 15:23 5k so your comments about no improvement seem pretty off base. Yes I will probably begin seeing diminishing returns as I get faster and Father Time will probably start catching up with me but I would be pretty disappointed to not continue to PR each cycle for a few more cycles at least.

I politely request that you exit this thread. You don’t offer value. Thank you.

Well......I had no intention of highlightning myself and my system,just giving advice.

Even if you have made a very good improvement,which I congratulate you on , what you

have shown from your training still seems unstructured in my eyes. Your goal is to run a sub 15

and it`s now at 15:23 it`s getting tougher to cutting the seconds. Good luck! :)

highhoppingworm wrote:

JS. I’m working with a coach, with a plan written out through the end of September. This is literally the opposite of “unstructured”. I would be interested in how you would defend that statement. As far as progress, in 2 years I have gone from barely being able to run 3 miles to a 15:23 5k so your comments about no improvement seem pretty off base. Yes I will probably begin seeing diminishing returns as I get faster and Father Time will probably start catching up with me but I would be pretty disappointed to not continue to PR each cycle for a few more cycles at least.

I politely request that you exit this thread. You don’t offer value. Thank you.

I hope you continue posting highhopping. At this moment I’m not training much, but I will certainly follow along with you and chime in from time to time.

And yes, I agree. JS, either be more considerate or please leave the thread.

"Considerate" ?? So you mean I shouldn`t comment with what I really out from long experience

assesses things here? It is my opinion that the training I commented looks to be unstructured up to what I mean by that expression.

But be that as it may,I will only continue to show how my coached runner effectively reaches sub 15 in an effectively structured way. Perhaps it can be seen as constructive?

The problem JS is you have not articulated what about the training I s unstructured. Instead, it just looks like a pejorative statement and an attempt to push your own services. I would really prefer you not pollute this thread with your crap. If your athlete wants to post their training by all means go for it.

highhoppingworm wrote:

The problem JS is you have not articulated what about the training I s unstructured. Instead, it just looks like a pejorative statement and an attempt to push your own services. I would really prefer you not pollute this thread with your crap. If your athlete wants to post their training by all means go for it.

When you respond so hostilely, of course I`m not going to tell you what in your training I

perceive as unstructured.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

highhoppingworm wrote:

The problem JS is you have not articulated what about the training I s unstructured. Instead, it just looks like a pejorative statement and an attempt to push your own services. I would really prefer you not pollute this thread with your crap. If your athlete wants to post their training by all means go for it.

When you respond so hostilely, of course I`m not going to tell you what in your training I

perceive as unstructured.

Stensson, shut up and leave this thread.

That is a perfectly sensible and structured plan.

ImpaIa31 wrote:

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

When you respond so hostilely, of course I`m not going to tell you what in your training I

perceive as unstructured.

Stensson, shut up and leave this thread.

That is a perfectly sensible and structured plan.

Shut up yourself!!! It`s not a perfectly sensible and structured plan! But I will of course leave this

thread........throwing pearls for the pigs is not my style. )))

Nice week! The Wednesday session looks very strong!

I did a 5 x 5.2km session this week, averaging a touch under 3:45 min/km, with 1.2km easy/jog rest. Total including the rest 30.8km in 1:59:56, thus 3:53 min/km pace average. Continued for another 1.2km at easy/jog pace, and also 800m warm up at the same kind of pace, but didn't record these. Not on fresh legs, had cycled to and from work earlier in the day, and the way home is quite tough, half an hour mostly uphill. No way near sub 15 shape, but thought I'd mention it! Might run a marathon in the second half of August.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

ImpaIa31 wrote:

Stensson, shut up and leave this thread.

That is a perfectly sensible and structured plan.

Shut up yourself!!! It`s not a perfectly sensible and structured plan! But I will of course leave this

thread........throwing pearls for the pigs is not my style. )))

You are the only pig here. That's right, shut up and leave.

That’s a long hard workout! What are your shooting for on the Marathon? Sub 2:40?