Sub 1:10 Half Marathon Training

I've read many of his posts and really like how he structures his phases and buildups, but 100% believe that his key workouts are too much volume for amateurs or that you should train not strain. Somewhere on these boards he was asked if amateurs should use special blocks and he said yes, but it should be adjusted based on the athlete's volume. He goes on to say that if the special block is 50km for his elite athletes who run 210km per week or 30km per day then a special block for a normal athlete running 15km per day should 25km per day. (These aren't the exact numbers that was the general idea.)

You can apply the same logic to his other workouts and they should be scaled based to your volume. So rather than doing 9mi at RP, maybe its only 6mi, "only" 9mi at RP+10s, and instead of 7x2000m at RP you would do 5x2000m. These are all still huge workouts.

I think because his workouts are so extreme people tend to discard everything he says as ludicrous. But I think you can take his basic principles and apply them to your training. So in a 12 week build up to a half you might spend 6 weeks doing intervals at 10k pace or 105% of HM pace and continuous/long runs that at 95% that are up to 25km but probably more like 15km with some warmup and cool down added on. The next 6 weeks you do some combination of intervals and continuous runs that could be up to 15km total but are probably more like 10km. Week-by-week in the special and specific periods your goal should be to increase the interval to rest ratio. Prior to these two periods you would have completed many hill workouts that increased in volume and "tempo" runs that first increased in distance and then speed.

That's my $0.02.

Biggest I've done was 7mi at HMP. If I wanted a 10mi tempo I'd probably go HMP+10s more or less, but that wouldn't be common unless I had the marathon in mind.

If you're only using longer tempo runs for marathon training you're impeding your aerobic development. I'm curious as to why you think it'd only be useful/common if you have the marathon in mind? You're not alone in this thinking. Most runners I know seem to have this belief. I personally have had success with long uptempo runs lasting 45 to 70 minutes. I recently spent a few months only doing those and then found that all paces down to 5k felt easier. Here's some great info from tinman (link to thread below):

Anyone in Orlando this weekend and wanna catch a run together? I’ll be there late Thurs night - Sun morning visiting the parks. I’m staying about 20mins from Magic Kingdom and I’m planning on doing the LR Sat. My hotel is about 20mins from the 10-mile clay loop. If anyone is interested, hit me up:

jestrada400@yahoo.com

.

Also, any good places y’all would recommend to run? I’ve never run at the clay loop before, but I’ve heard about it since high school and it looks good.

There's a 4 mile race in Winter Park Saturday morning, but I'm going to the clay roads for 18 on Sunday morning. Not sure if you have any flexibility on the timing of your long run either way, get out to the clay. It's worth it.

Also doing a tempo sessionn 3 miles/3 miles/2 miles downtown tomorrow.

My email is linked to my user name here, so shoot me an email if you like.

I too was on a quest for a sub-70 so I hope this is the right place to post. I have throughly enjoyed reading this thread and have benefited from all the great info.

That goal is now gone and I am looking for help in the final weeks before my race.

Here is some background: I am 29, 5'11", 160 lbs. I don't have a long history of running. I did run in high school, but then took nearly a decade off before starting to marathon 2 years ago. I came off a decent, but not great Boston run of 2:47. I think I was in 2:40 shape, but weather, seed (coral 5 start), and perhaps inexperience(second marathon) prevented the sub 2:40. I live in New England and the training in the winter can be complicated, so I just put in miles without too many workouts. My real goal was to survive the winter with a solid base in order setup a really great spring and summer of training, which I believe I accomplished.

Once Boston was done and the weather was warmer (sidewalks and tracks open, roads not slippery, etc) I started working on speed and towards my goal of a sub-70 HLM. Everything was going great. My workout paces were dropping quickly.

In spring I was doing some of these workouts on consistent basis.

Tempo: 5 @ 5:35

Intervals: 8x1k @ 3:07

Long: 17-18 w 3x2m @ 5:30 mixed in (plenty of rest between the intervals)

Uptempo: 10 @ 6:00

My best week came at the end of May where I did:

92 miles, 34:34 10k on the track for LT, and the above long run.

After that I seemed to plateau. I felt like I couldn't recover between workouts and needed nearly a whole week before attempting my next one. I decided to stop doing workouts at 90mpw and do a couple weeks of high miles before bringing it back down to 90. The hope was to make 90 feel less stressful and thus be able to workout at that volume. It appeared to work. After I was done with a 100 and then 110 week followed by and easy week, I was able to do 2 workouts and a long run every week for the past 6 weeks. I am not 100% sure the high volume was the main factor though. The temperatures starting to drop again around that time. I am getting quicker now, but slowly. I am 3 weeks out from my target race in October and realize I don't really have any chance to hit the Sub-70. Here are my last few weeks of workouts:

SEP 3-9 - 89 miles

Wed: 9x1k @ 3:07 6min "Go's"

Sat: 3x3200 @ 10:51, 10:57, 10:53. 2 min rest

Sun: 17.5 @ 6:37

Sep 10-16 - 90 miles

Wed: Tempo - 5 @ 5:35

Sat: 4x3200 @ 10:51, 10:54, 10:54, 10:45

Sun: 17 @ 6:34

Sep 17-23 - 87 miles

Wed: 7x1k @ 3:05 6min "Go's"

Sat: 4x2 @ 10:33, 10:45, 10:49, 10:48. 2 min rest - Flat, mimicking course conditions

Sun: Course preview. 18.5 easy with a tour group

Sep 24-30 - 93 (projected miles), currently 55

Wed: 2x20 min @ 5:38 . A little over 7 miles total. 1 mile rest between the intervals. Moderate hilly course.

Sat: Planned long tempo on a flat course

Sun: Long run at whatever feels uptempo after the Saturday workout

With just a couple weeks left of real training before I should start the taper I have many confusing thoughts. My 4x2 mile workout makes me feel like I am in 72 shape, but then my longer tempos don't feel great at all and aren't that quick. I don't race often (with the plan of focusing on one big race), but I am realizing recently that might contribute to how not confident I am about what pace I should go out at. It is a goal race and I don't want to leave a lot on the table which means not going out too slow or fast. Sometimes 5:30 (72) feels too ambitious and sometimes it feels too slow.

With the long winded explanations above, here are the answers (free coaching) I am hoping to get out of this. 1) recommendations for my final weeks 2) race pace suggestions based on these workouts 3) a post mortem WRT to why I stalled all summer.

Any help is appreciated.

Run a half in sub 1:10 ? Easy match if you have that pace in you for the day. Then your training week can be like this :

mo: 6-8 miles 6.40-6.50 mile pace

tu: 20 x 400m at 72-73 sec rec= wait easy walking until 120 bpm

we: 6-8 miles 6.40-6.50 mile pace

th: LT workout 6-8 x 1600m at 5:20 mile pace rec= wait easy walking until 120 bpm

fr: 6-8 miles 6.40-6.50 mile pace

sa: specific long run 15- 18 miles at 6:50 mile pace ......last 20 min at intervals 1 min fast - 1 min slow......fast pace LT- pace

su: RESTDAY

This kind of schedule works every time .Too many coaches and runners think they have to complicate things to succeed. Make it simple and you have a guaranteed improvement. Consistency and repetitive work is the key! Train, don`t strain !

- Magic fall -

Coach JS, why do you offer the advice of "rest until 120 bpm" to every runner?

Andy Dufresne wrote:

Coach JS, why do you offer the advice of "rest until 120 bpm" to every runner?

Because it functions in 100% of the "cases " I have coached! It`s also the perfect individual rest after every rep. The further into the interval you need more rest after the reps. It`s very logical. Always gives the best individual rest between reps.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

Run a half in sub 1:10 ? Easy match if you have that pace in you for the day. Then your training week can be like this :

mo: 6-8 miles 6.40-6.50 mile pace

tu: 20 x 400m at 72-73 sec rec= wait easy walking until 120 bpm

we: 6-8 miles 6.40-6.50 mile pace

th: LT workout 6-8 x 1600m at 5:20 mile pace rec= wait easy walking until 120 bpm

fr: 6-8 miles 6.40-6.50 mile pace

sa: specific long run 15- 18 miles at 6:50 mile pace ......last 20 min at intervals 1 min fast - 1 min slow......fast pace LT- pace

su: RESTDAY

This kind of schedule works every time .Too many coaches and runners think they have to complicate things to succeed. Make it simple and you have a guaranteed improvement. Consistency and repetitive work is the key! Train, don`t strain !

- Magic fall -

Thanks for the input. I don't do a lot of shorter intervals, so incorporating that would likely be of benefit to me. I also couldn't agree more about consistency. I don't think I have enough talent to run such low milage for a sub 1:10, but I do feel like I could have gotten more out of my training at slightly lower mpw- at least in the short term.

You have the basic speed and shape of the day to do this program quite easy. You must stop thinking that high mileage is the main key to your goal . It`s not the main key! It`s more of importance how you run and mix your mileage with the main factors for the result.

- The Wizard -

I myself ran a half ( Gothenburg half,difficult course) in 1:06:47 on just 55-60 miles per week . You don`t need more than that to run 1:10 if you mix the 3 most important factors for the result correct.

the general advice here is to 100% always ignore "superior coach JS" or "coach JS", although he brings up a good point about doing more intervals. 1000s are pretty long intervals and you should try doing some 300s, 400s, or 600s. even a set of 200s before and after workouts to sharpen up.

I'd say that 72 is definitely there, no question. on a bad day even. 71 is what you should probably aim for, which is about 5:25s. maybe start out at 5:23-5:26 and see what happens. doing 2mi reps, often, in the 10:40s is a good HMP predictor. it will feel much easier on race day

Thanks a lot reed. I will definitely incorporate those shorter intervals into my final weeks. Appreciate the pace suggestion too. I am glad to have some confirmation 71-72 won't be a kamikaze pace.

I made a similar jump from as a consistent 71 high 72 mid HM to low 69 this past winter. Super coach js points aren't 100% useless. The general components are there: long run with a high end aerobic component, cruisy HM pace intervals, and faster 3k-5k pace running. As usual he made some outrageously broad claims about mileage, heart rate, etc but the key pieces are there.

I do well with and enjoy a periodized approach so my training phases were as follows: 1) mileage and 2hr long runs, 2) 6-10 mile "tempo" runs and hill work, 3) mile-10k pace interval workouts, 4) HM pace workouts. I made the biggest gains in phases 2 and 3. Phase 4 was all about race day preparation but the fitness was already there.

My take on your training, but correct me if I'm wrong, is that you've basically done my phase 1) and skipped to 4). Mileage alone isn't going to make 5:20 pace to become your new 5:30 pace. This is especially true if you AREN'T talented. Because you don't have talent, you need to PRACTICE running faster than 5:30 pace. At first those efforts will be harder/faster than HM pace. Gradually as you combine higher intensity running with good aerobic training and you'll be capable of running 5:25, 5:20 pace, 5:15 pace at a comfortable effort similar to your 5:30 effort now. The progression will be very gradual.

You're "stagnation" this summer was probably 50%-80% heat/humidity related, if were in New England, and 20%-50% training related. I would guess you've stagnated less than you think and instead made modest fitness gains in line with your training.

More great input. Thank you. I am getting a lot of bang for my buck here.

Nice! Congrats

How long are these phases? Do you stay in phase 1 during the off season before jumping into the faster stuff?

You aren't wrong. Though I will say that I did spend some time in your Phase 2 as preparation to entering my current phase. That only lasted a couple weeks, but I did seem to have good gains there. However, I probably attributed it incorrectly. I thought it was just my fitness from my Boston training coming out and I was already in that type of shape. I hadn't gone faster than 6:00 pace through the winter.

I get confused with respect to what system this actually stimulates. It isn't LT or VO2Max and is faster than typical aerobic recommendations. I see a lot of good runners doing this, so I don't doubt its importance, I just don't understand it. Aerobic capacity, aerobic power, ..?

This is becoming an all too obvious as part of my failing to meet my goal.

I didn't have an off season per say. I dabbled and was half training for a few months around 40-50mpw and then ramped up the mileage over 4 weeks in what in m,y phase 1.

I spent roughly 4 weeks in each phase. Things moved a bit due to life schedules but roughly 4 weeks a piece. The firsts two phases could go on for more but with diminishing returns. You need a minimum of 4 weeks for the hill work in phase 2 and the intervals in phase 3. This is more true if you haven't touched those paces or efforts consistently over the past year or two.

I noticed in your current training you had some good sessions around 5:00 pace like 1ks in 3:08. That's great but from what you've described you personally will need to consistently work on those paces if you want to lower your half time. That's also why I'd recommend not just adding in faster 400s as part of your final prep, but rather dedicating at least a month to that type of work.

One other thing to keep in mind is that as you progress towards the race you'll want to revisit the workouts you did in the earlier weeks/phases as maintenance. So hills every few weeks during the interval/3rd phase, or a few hills after a couple easy runs. A tempo every couple weeks is good in the third phase too. Essentially in phase 3 your A workout is the interval session and your B workouts alternate between threshold/steady runs, and hills. During the 4 phase since you are running HMP workouts, threshold is unnecessary. As your secondary workout revisiting hills or shorter intervals as maintenance is a good idea. These should be easy workouts though because the primary workouts at HMP will be progressively bigger and you'll want to allow adequate recovery from those.

I don't really know. I just know it works for me. I respond well to weekly steady, moderately hard runs. It's what I think of as true base training. You jog in the base/before the base so you can handle the mileage and volume, then you start swapping out easy days for moderate days and truly start to progress aerobically.

5min on 5 mins off for 70 mins

5:25s for HM is awfully aggressive for someone who's only done 34:34 10k (5:25>33:40ish).

The 1k's are very strong, however, at 5:00 pace, and give more hope for 1:11.