Should High School Cross Country Coaches Run with the Team?

Flagpole wrote:

thejeff wrote:

1.5 mile loop: How about if the team runs clockwise and the coach runs counter clockwise? Still seeing all of the kids. Not killing any joy. Coach still getting in a run, instead of sitting there like a lazy ass. Best of both worlds, right?

That is BETTER to the point of being acceptable (and isn't what I would call running with the team), but that doesn't solve the problem that many say exists which is that they have to run with the team to supervise. I don't really have any need for a coach to get a run in, so that part makes no difference to me (isn't any part of a win in my book).

Cool.

I still completely disagree with you, but I like finding out what makes people tick.

What's up with flagpole/thejeff talking to himself?

Flagpole would likely be fired at most any school in Southern California due to negligence. You can't send kids out on their own all the time. What he's not understanding about coaching, which is no surprise considering he doesn't coach, is that the real coaching isn't in the details of the workouts or telling them how important shoes are. Coaching is about understanding the people you're working with and if your policy is to purposely keep them at a far distance then you're going to suck as a coach.

Maybe that style works in the military.

For Sake Bombs wrote:

What's up with flagpole/thejeff talking to himself?

Flagpole would likely be fired at most any school in Southern California due to negligence. You can't send kids out on their own all the time. What he's not understanding about coaching, which is no surprise considering he doesn't coach, is that the real coaching isn't in the details of the workouts or telling them how important shoes are. Coaching is about understanding the people you're working with and if your policy is to purposely keep them at a far distance then you're going to suck as a coach.

Maybe that style works in the military.

Yes and whether you are popular or not should not stop you from being with your kids. It's like a good teacher. They do not want you there when they need you most. But when you're gone they wish you were around.

I'm usually in agreement with you, Flagpole, but you couldn't be any more wrong about this.

- Head Coach specifically wanted a distance coach who would run with te team.

- Parents were happy - a few even said the wouldn't let their kid run outside without me. (We run primarily through a forest trail system).

- My athletes ask me to run with them. If I didn't have running clothes on at the start of practice, the team legitimately gets upset.

- I remember the great talks during my HS track/xc days. I know when to run within a group, switch groups, run off the back solo or don't run (usually recovery or track workout days).

I would imagine most eligible (non-injured/old) XC/track coaches operate in a similar environment.

Steeplechase expert wrote:

In what situation would a coach be able to run with the team? I've never had a head coach who would have been able to keep up past the warm up.

I typically run with the new kids to teach them how to run. We have no JH/MS teams coming to our school, so none of them have any prior training, so it is up to me to set the tone. The first few weeks, I run with the newest kids. After that, I run with whoever I can help the most, which is usually the JV guys or the varsity girls. If a new kid shows up, I accompany him/her for a week or so and revert to the other plan.

In the summer base training, I run with the same JV boys and Varsity girls. We run in a multitude of places that need supervision, so I stay with them. Every time I switch to a new group, the other group begs me to run with them. By switching it up, the team can bond with each other on some days and get me the other days.

When I run with them, I am constantly telling them tips and strategies. That is the main reason to run with the varsity kids and the new ones. They have no clue until I can fill their ears with tips.

Someone gets it!

Another one who gets it!

Flagpole wrote:

800 dude wrote:

... but I also think it's worth keeping mind that nobody ever thinks they're being "that guy," even if sometimes they are.

This^ is the truth and the crux of the whole discussion. People want what they want, and so they tell themselves that it is ok. I will give one exception to the not running with the athletes rule...if there is a special needs kid who really must have adult supervision and the parents and the school either can't afford or won't pay for someone to run with them, if the coach is able and all parties agree, then I'm ok with that. Pretty much, other than that situation, coaches need to not run with their athletes.

All kids are special needs at my school. They need attention from their coach. My kids get upset if I take a day away from running with them. Why? Because I am not like YOU, Flagpole, who thinks he is the end all, be all of everything. They like hearing stories about races I have run. They ask me why I am not doing the workouts with them. They like that I also fart on runs like they do. They see me as a human being who cares enough about them to run with them and ask them about their classes and such. I get it why they don't want you to run with them. However, my kids argue about who gets to have Coach run with them. Why? Because I am not "that guy", but care about them as people. It isn't about me; it is about them. Try it, and you might be welcomed by your team on the runs.

Not every school has the luxuries that yours does, so stop acting like your cookie cutter approach is the only way!

I mentioned special needs kids as an exception.

Hi, JEH!

For Sake Bombs wrote:

What's up with flagpole/thejeff talking to himself?

Flagpole would likely be fired at most any school in Southern California due to negligence. You can't send kids out on their own all the time. What he's not understanding about coaching, which is no surprise considering he doesn't coach, is that the real coaching isn't in the details of the workouts or telling them how important shoes are. Coaching is about understanding the people you're working with and if your policy is to purposely keep them at a far distance then you're going to suck as a coach.

Maybe that style works in the military.

Lol, that is a new one to me.

I am Rojo and DiscoGary. Flagpole is... um... special.

thejeff wrote:

For Sake Bombs wrote:

What's up with flagpole/thejeff talking to himself?

Flagpole would likely be fired at most any school in Southern California due to negligence. You can't send kids out on their own all the time. What he's not understanding about coaching, which is no surprise considering he doesn't coach, is that the real coaching isn't in the details of the workouts or telling them how important shoes are. Coaching is about understanding the people you're working with and if your policy is to purposely keep them at a far distance then you're going to suck as a coach.

Maybe that style works in the military.

Lol, that is a new one to me.

I am Rojo and DiscoGary. Flagpole is... um... special.

My mother always said I was special.

Now that is just idiotic!

No Absolutes wrote:

Ashton Eating wrote:

Coach should never participate in workouts.

My high school coach was the only person that was a viable training partner for me. The rest of the team was too young/inexperienced. Not ideal, obviously, but there's one counterexample to your point.

I know this is anecdotal evidence but this situation is the only one where anecdotal evidence is useful- when idiots like Flagpole claim that his opinion applies to everybody.

I coach at a small school. I lost my veteran girls due to transfer, apathy and exchange student program. I only had one returning girl on the team. If I did not run pacer for them in workouts, they would run way too fast or way too slow. I can't put them with a guy or the guy would run too slow. I am the only option. I do not want to pace them, but I have to out of necessity.

We have a team of 40.

They run all different distances and all different paces in small groups of 2-5 kids.

Sometimes I drive out and set up a table with water, other times I bike, they wear pace watches sometimes per group when going at slow tempo, and sometimes I run with them.

I no longer compete but when I did running at 8:30 pace with some of my slower athletes was NOT selfish I can tell you that. I'm not complaining about coaching b/c I love it but as a runner my race times got a lot slower when I focused on my team.

Flagpole wrote:

My mother always said I was special.

Did she GUARANTEE that for you?

A coach definitely needs to know the situation and pick their spots.

Hindsight 20/20 from my experience, a coach should not run WITH his runners.

However, there are probably more positives than drawbacks if a coach runs at the same time as his or her runners (this is different than running with them).

A coach can be a buzzkill or a coach can be undermining his authority by running among teenagers. Or seem like a douche by doing his workouts and competing with kids.

That said, the most important aspect of coaching is to teach running and to hold a high school athlete accountable. Our team used to either run multiple reps over our xc course or certain designated road routes. When I ran and came across runners at various times over the course, I could check their splits and make sure their pace was right (plus a lot of them did not wear stopwatches). I also found that certain less motivated kids would walk the course or route if they were not being watched. By running at the same time, you either could hold them to account or get them off the team so as not to poison the other runners.

If you have an experienced team with quality runners, they will often hold other runners accountable. But even then, some kids are hesitant to snitch on others. However, I think if you have an inexperienced team or trying to rehab a program that had previously crap coaching, you might need to be more hands on.

I also think that a coach that runs has a touch more credibility at times. Running is often perceived as a form of punishment in other sports. Screw up and go run a lap. Kids don't automatically see it as a sport unto its own and actually being fun. When a coach runs, it starts becoming something more than a person in authority just barking orders at kids.

I would also add, we ran in a public park with a zoo with plenty of families around. Just for disciplinary reasons, it helped being nearby running at the same time just in case kids weren't behaving and were dropping f bombs. It would be an administrative headache if a local called the school or park and complain about kids cursing. They do represent the school and poor behavior reflects poorly on the school and coaches.

Well that post flew right over your head!