Kari12345 wrote:
The third rule clearly states that you will be splitting the money... I hate to say it, but just call the Charity and ask to pay in increments. You would hate for something as little as this to blow out of proportion.
If this was so clearly stated then why did they pay the full amount to each gender?
Why? Because it wasn't clear.
Star wrote:
Kari12345 wrote:The third rule clearly states that you will be splitting the money... I hate to say it, but just call the Charity and ask to pay in increments. You would hate for something as little as this to blow out of proportion.
If this was so clearly stated then why did they pay the full amount to each gender?
Why? Because it wasn't clear.
Maybe it wasn't a mistake. Maybe they intended all along to pay the full amount to each gender, but just calculated the total wrong or meant to say $15,000 for each gender. Maybe after the fact when they looked at the budget, they saw a shortfall, perhaps because they gave 50% off for registration, and then decided they'd try to get prize money back.
The race director's math is just awful look at what he wrote.
the Race Director wrote:
Since we began our advertising campaign in early 2015, we have been promoting (with proof) $15,000 in prize money. The breakdown on our website has always and still is the same. Yes, it seems to be unclear to a few people, however, several people have come forward and said they knew it was a mistake and fully understood how the prize money was to be divided. If you add up the numbers with the total prize money being split between male and female, you will see that it adds up to $15,000. The way you think the prize money should be divided totals $30,000. DO THE MATH. If we had the original intention of giving $30,000, we damn well sure would have advertised our prize money at $30,000 instead of $15,000 to attract more participants, obviously.
That's simply not true.
I added it all up. If you add up what they actually paid out (1800 each for first), it adds up to $24,500 as there is no double dipping on the costume stuff.
As shown as follows:
10 milers - $7000 total ($1800 for 1st, $1000 for 2nd, $600 for 3rd x 2 sexes)
10k - $6400 total ($1600 for 1st, $1000 for 2nd, $600 for 3rd x 2)
5k $5600 total ($1400 for 1st, $900 for 2nd, $500 for third x 2 sexes)
10 masters - $1500 ( $250 for each winner in 3 age groups x 2 sexes)
Teams $2000 total ( $800 1st, $500 2nd, $400, 3rd, $200 4th, $100 5th)
Costume $2000 total ( $800 1st, $500 2nd, $400, 3rd, $200 4th, $100 5th)
There is simply no way to get to $30,000 by any math. Even if you double the team and costume for both sexes, which I assume ould be a mistake, you'd only get to $28,500.
Sadly, I think the race director will get his money back by not offering prize money at all next year.
I have a hard time believing this was a mistake. It says 18,000 on the website for prize money.
They made a giant check with 18,000 on it
They mailed a check for 18,000
They contacted the OP a few weeks after they mailed that check, demanding he repay half of it. That seems like around the time a race would realize how much money it had made.
The way the RD went after the OP, it feels like he knew he was in the wrong and is compensating with threats and strong-arm tactics.
rojo wrote:
10 milers - $7000 total ($1800 for 1st, $1000 for 2nd, $600 for 3rd x 2 sexes)
10k - $6400 total ($1600 for 1st, $1000 for 2nd, $600 for 3rd x 2)
5k $5600 total ($1400 for 1st, $900 for 2nd, $500 for third x 2 sexes)
10 masters - $1500 ( $250 for each winner in 3 age groups x 2 sexes)
Teams $2000 total ( $800 1st, $500 2nd, $400, 3rd, $200 4th, $100 5th)
Costume $2000 total ( $800 1st, $500 2nd, $400, 3rd, $200 4th, $100 5th)
There is simply no way to get to $30,000 by any math. Even if you double the team and costume for both sexes, which I assume could be a mistake, you'd only get to $28,500.
Sadly, I think the race director will get his money back by not offering prize money at all next year.
The only way to get $15,000 is to split the open 10 miler, 10k, & 5k. If you don't split the others, you get $15,000 ($3,500 + $3,200 + $2,800 + $1500 + $2,000 + $2,000 = $15,000) This fact makes the RD claims all that more unbelievable. Why is he only splitting some of the race money? He said it was a mistake, but if the masters, teams, and costumes prize money is split, he is only giving out $12,250.
Bonkers wrote:
I have a hard time believing this was a mistake. It says 18,000 on the website for prize money.
They made a giant check with 18,000 on it
They mailed a check for 18,000
They contacted the OP a few weeks after they mailed that check, demanding he repay half of it. That seems like around the time a race would realize how much money it had made.
The way the RD went after the OP, it feels like he knew he was in the wrong and is compensating with threats and strong-arm tactics.
You mean 1,800.
Just gotta say that this thread has been awesome.
rtsrtsdghsd wrote:
Rick wrote:OP - Can I assume this the first purse you've won? It is considered bad form in the running community to accept prize money in races where the majority of the money goes to a charity.
For profit or only small $ go to a charity. Accept the prize.
Always be the better man.
No, it is not considered bad form to accept prize money at a charity race. Where do people come up with stuff like this?
gotta agree with rick - maybe he's in nova too. if a charity is the major sponsor and they give out something that can benefit the charity (money, gift cards, etc) then we always give it back. kind of an unwritten rule.
runnernova wrote:
rtsrtsdghsd wrote:No, it is not considered bad form to accept prize money at a charity race. Where do people come up with stuff like this?
gotta agree with rick - maybe he's in nova too. if a charity is the major sponsor and they give out something that can benefit the charity (money, gift cards, etc) then we always give it back. kind of an unwritten rule.
What? Wow! That is not the case in NC and SC. I help with some races that benefit a local charity (I am a board member) and I am not sure we'd know what to do if someone gave the money back, hahaha. I am not a professional race director, though. And it has been decades since I have won any prize money myself...
Not for elite and subelite distance runners who support themselves, at least in part, through running
Maybe the winning runners will give back to a charity of their choice. That is their decision, not yours. In fact maybe you should create a gofundme acct to help these aspiring distance runners train. That sounds like a worthy cause too
Should Meb give back his Boston prize $ and appearance fees so BAA can donate it to their chosen charities?
runnernova wrote:
rtsrtsdghsd wrote:No, it is not considered bad form to accept prize money at a charity race. Where do people come up with stuff like this?
gotta agree with rick - maybe he's in nova too. if a charity is the major sponsor and they give out something that can benefit the charity (money, gift cards, etc) then we always give it back. kind of an unwritten rule.
strange but true. it's wierd when at the awards banquet they go on about all the good things the charity does and how you can donate and what they do with the mony and then hand you a check.
I won $100 at the Race For The Cure 5K in DC. It was for coming in 1st (or 2nd, 3rd...I don't recall exactly) in my age group. It came in the mail a week or so later. I honestly had no idea there were even age group awards being given out. I just spent the money and never gave it a second thought. I don't feel that accepting the prize money somehow deprived the charity of anything. These charities and "non-profits" often have huge budgets and frequently give things away as part of their fund raising.
This whole thing sounds really fishy to me. As I said in the previous post, I have helped with races for a few years and I cannot imagine this happening. Our races are not as big as this one, and we don't give out nearly as much prize money. Something odd is going on, and the way in which the RD is approaching the winner is just shady.
If this were a clear-cut case of a charity losing money as a result of the "mistake," I would ask the OP to consider whether he wanted to donate the money back to the charity. But my feeling is that if it were truly a mistake, there would not be legal threats and bullying by the RD.
Can someone please clarify if the Surfing Madonnas Ocean Project will lose the money if it is not returned? I know that it has been suggested already, but maybe the OP can offer to donate $900 to the Surfing Madonnas Ocean Project charity during the coming year (monthly payment or something).
I am not implying that this should be required, but the OP seems to think the charity is doing good within the community (and the oceanic environment in general), so that could be a great thing for him to do.
I think we need to consider what it means to presume that giving the $900 back is "the right thing to do" though. If they had approached him in a more civil manner, maybe we could say that. Plenty of things go to a good cause:
If you bought a pair of TOMS shoes - a company doing good, charitable work - and then started receiving letters from the founder demanding that you pay an additional $45 because they charged you the wrong price, would you really pay them? At a certain point, we need to maintain a level of expectation that when you win prize money, there is closure.
As someone who helps put on two races a year for a local charity (as fund raisers for the charity), I feel for the RD, but I can not imagine threatening legal action in the event that this happened. People on the Board would certainly be expected to cover the mistake. But I also do not see it happening due to the absolutely stringent (internal and external) regulations on most charities' pocketbooks.
Tough situation for all involved.
OP, if you did return the money, to whom would you make the check payable? Just out of curiosity...
Based on the shady RD director who also appears to head the charity, I think the runners would have far better options with other charities
runnernova wrote:
strange but true. it's wierd when at the awards banquet they go on about all the good things the charity does and how you can donate and what they do with the mony and then hand you a check.
Well, this is the case with for-profit enterprises, too. Yo have no doubt heard the phrase, "You have to spend money to make money."
Charities put on lavish events that cost a lot of money with the expectation that they will ultimately end up in the black. It is really no different than a business - we'll say a restaurant - fronting money into decor, food, rent, payroll, etc. under the presumption that they will ultimately end up in the black.
As someone who is very involved philanthropically, I can assure you that hosting a annual black-tie dinner in a nice venue - following physical invitations sent on expensive stock - will raise MUCH more money than simply sending out an email asking for money. It is the process of having people feel truly involved with the charity. It makes it personal and tangible.
I applaud your willingness to give the money back, but the better thing to do would be to accept the check and then donate the same amount (maybe plus $5) right back to the charity. It would help both you and the charity tax-wise and it would be a hell of a lot easier for the charity's CPA ;)
Either way, you seem like a good guy.
The few people who it was unclear to include The Race Director, apparently, every winner, everyone involved in making the checks and presenting them to the winner, and pretty much everyone else for two months. If it was clear to everyone but a few, why did you write and present the checks, and why did no one except these "several people" notice for two months?rojo wrote:
The race director's math is just awful look at what he wrote.
the Race Director wrote:Since we began our advertising campaign in early 2015, we have been promoting (with proof) $15,000 in prize money. The breakdown on our website has always and still is the same. Yes, it seems to be unclear to a few people, .
The Race Director might have a case about it being a mistake, but why does h have to double down on being a d!ck at every opportunity?
congratulations on winning, by the way.
nice job!
I wish they would also wrote:...just to prove all you conspiracy theorists wrong. Why do some of you think it could only be the RD thinking it'd be a good idea to return the cash? Not everyone believes it's a good idea to keep something that someone else would like to have returned.
Prove me wrong, I'm fine with that. I'm wrong about stuff every day. In this case I don't think I am. None (almost none?) of the posts saying to give the money back based on morality come from registered users - and in many cases the language used has similar traits. You (or they) want a measure of credibility, register your handle(s). Or not, since the board doesn't require one, but if you don't expect to get called out. I've been posting on here for 15 years, same user name, and I almost always post my email too. I take responsibility for what I post. So Brojos, prove me wrong!!! Or not, as the case may be.
I will grant you that some people out there might truly believe that the right thing to do by the OP and the other prize winners is give half the prize money they were awarded back. I respect that, but as a 25 year race director that's not how I would personally let it lie. If I make this kind of mistake with one of my races I'm going to eat the mistake. That's where my morality is. Any mistake I make on our race info pages is on me until I fix it. That's where my morality lives.
Just because "somebody would like something returned" that's not always a good enough reason for the possessor to return it. If I don't pay my monthly bill for my storage locker and they auction off the contents, the fact that I want my tools back isn't going to get my tools back.
d2xccoach wrote:
Just because "somebody would like something returned" that's not always a good enough reason for the possessor to return it. If I don't pay my monthly bill for my storage locker and they auction off the contents, the fact that I want my tools back isn't going to get my tools back.
This reminds me of the time that my wife and her friends had a yard sale and sold a toy cash register for $1.50, and the man who bought it came knocking on our door (wasn't our register, but who cares...) two nights later demanding a refund. He didn't deserve one, but I sure as hell gave him the $1.50 to get him off my property. Not the same scenario by any means, but I just felt the need to share that story. I think I started a thread about it, actually... Scared me that someone would do that, and I told my wife that I would rather donate everything next time. Not worth the hassle of having weirdos show up demanding refunds on old toys and clothing.
This is really sketchy. Its weird to me that they upped the money for the costume contest and team contest to me but are saying runners would get 900 each. That's pretty much reducing the prize money for the run from last year. They advertised as them raising the prize money for each event but now saying that no they reduced it from last year. Also, the race director was the one walking around with the checks so if it was really divided like he said it was he would've noticed