This is thinkingfuture, but I decided to sign in since my posts (especially the first one with 14 likes and 331 dislikes lol) have garnered attention.
Once more, I'm no coach, and never claimed to be. I wrote my personal, spur-of-the-moment observations (if you would like, you can look at my post on page 8 where I 'debunked' my own claim about the 10k) I have no coaching credentials. For privacy's sake, I will not list my personal accomplishments, but I have been running for many years, and enjoy it. Serious question: which part was absurd? The way I understand it, you are sayig that I am totally incorrect in thinking he should do things differently in order to lower his marathon PR. That is not absurd in itself, though the specific things I said may not be what he needs to do differently. However, what I said was not even unorthodox... Except for maybe the form comment, which could be seen as not unorthodox but rather too orthodox.
It's absurd that your apparent first impulse upon hearing that a relatively unknown 25 year old had soloed 2:07:56, on a purportedly average course, was to say that he ran funny and needed to do things differently in training if he wanted to get faster. Doubly absurd that you posted this reaction and are still defending it.
It's bad enough that so few of the resident geniuses here saw this coming after his debut in Minneapolis (or dismissed those of us who did, and said so). There's no excuse for continued stupid takes on this athlete. He is clearly a unique emerging American talent.
It is important to note what we agree on. You previously said:
"I'd say Richtman and his coach appear to know exactly what works for him. Now he just needs to keep stacking those quality, consistent, injury free miles. Absolutely amazing two races by this kid. Keep it up, Matt!"
I completely agree with what you said, except for he and his coach knowing exactly what works for him. I have no evidence to support that, and could be wrong. I think every single athlete (yes, 100%) could improve their training. Improve might mean change, or increase, or something else.
As of yet, both of us have talked from our own opinions, based on our experiences and knowledge. Yes, I am no genius. But would you like to hear the evidence I have to support my opinion? I am happy to have a discussion, or debate, about what we disagree on. I believe we disagree on how, or in what way, this performance should affect Richtman's routine.
He beat the competition that showed up on the day. And ran a big PB, showing potential for more given his level of experience and age. That’s all that counts.
Here is the competition that showed up on the day. (2nd to 10th place.)
Athanas Kioko. Marathon debut? 1:01 half in Houston this year.
Moses Kipruto Kurgat. 2:09:35 in Wuhan last year.
Sammy Rotich. 2:10:08 in Duluth 2022.
Kenneth Kemboi Rotich. 2:13:11 in Taipei last year.
It's interesting that, with the exception of Salazar (and Meyer?), I don't think that any of the early sub-2:10 Americans were very fast at 10K (track or road) - e.g., Rodgers, Durden, Beardsley, Tabb. Slightly later, Kempainen and Martin. And plenty of examples like that since (many or most after super shoes).
In fact, the easier list seems to be which sub-2:10 American marathoners WERE fast at 10K? Salazar, Rupp, and.....?
Is Salazar the last American to run upper-level world class times at 5/10K and the marathon? It seems he MIGHT?
It's been disappointing over the years to see how shorter distance success for American men hasn't translated to the marathon (again, at least time-wise.....with the possible - and surprising - exception of Hall). I always figured that Todd Williams had a great chance of being a great marathoner. Nope. Time-wise, at least, ditto Rupp. And a small handful of others.
Maybe one day......
I would say Rupp had upper level world-class performances in the Marathon but never ran a rabbited race in good conditions at his peak.
This guy had a 10,000 PR of 28:21 from not even a full year ago. That is good for a 2:10, which as it happens is what he ran for the marathon in 2024.
Suddenly he is running 1:01:14 and 2:07:15 (on a hilly course)????
Literally comical.
Is this what people call "not even trying to hide it" when the runner is from another country?
Downvotes are proving me exactly RIGHT here.
Americans on LetsRun will tear down Jess Hull or any Kenyan who improves by 2-3% in a year, but then this 25 year-old man improves by 4% in less than a year and all of the clowns with their "statistical analysis" are nowhere to be found. Embarassing.
As a fan of distance running, it's hard not to be cynical about the Kenyan's win in Chicago. Its time to talk about the elephant in the room in the sport
It's absurd that your apparent first impulse upon hearing that a relatively unknown 25 year old had soloed 2:07:56, on a purportedly average course, was to say that he ran funny and needed to do things differently in training if he wanted to get faster. Doubly absurd that you posted this reaction and are still defending it.
It's bad enough that so few of the resident geniuses here saw this coming after his debut in Minneapolis (or dismissed those of us who did, and said so). There's no excuse for continued stupid takes on this athlete. He is clearly a unique emerging American talent.
It is important to note what we agree on. You previously said:
"I'd say Richtman and his coach appear to know exactly what works for him. Now he just needs to keep stacking those quality, consistent, injury free miles. Absolutely amazing two races by this kid. Keep it up, Matt!"
I completely agree with what you said, except for he and his coach knowing exactly what works for him. I have no evidence to support that, and could be wrong. I think every single athlete (yes, 100%) could improve their training. Improve might mean change, or increase, or something else.
As of yet, both of us have talked from our own opinions, based on our experiences and knowledge. Yes, I am no genius. But would you like to hear the evidence I have to support my opinion? I am happy to have a discussion, or debate, about what we disagree on. I believe we disagree on how, or in what way, this performance should affect Richtman's routine.
You're replying to the wrong person. I stepped in when you asked what was absurd about your initial post.
I have no interest whatsoever in hearing your opinions about how this athlete should train.
This guy had a 10,000 PR of 28:21 from not even a full year ago. That is good for a 2:10, which as it happens is what he ran for the marathon in 2024.
Suddenly he is running 1:01:14 and 2:07:15 (on a hilly course)????
Literally comical.
Is this what people call "not even trying to hide it" when the runner is from another country?
Downvotes are proving me exactly RIGHT here.
Americans on LetsRun will tear down Jess Hull or any Kenyan who improves by 2-3% in a year, but then this 25 year-old man improves by 4% in less than a year and all of the clowns with their "statistical analysis" are nowhere to be found. Embarassing.
The downvotes attest that we think you're a moron. You didn't even get his time right in your original post (it's 2:07:56, not 2:07:15).
And now you're comparing an otherworldly performance by a well established, peak-age pro, from a country absolutely rife with doping, with that of a recent college grad in his first season of serious road racing-- a performance that's still many hundreds deep on the all-time world list.
Could this athlete be doping? Yes. Anyone could. Is the performance prima facie evidence that he is doping? Don't be ridiculous.
You are right, I did mix you up with someone else :) There have been so many people against what I said. Sorry!
I did specifically say, "would you like to hear the evidence I have to support my opinion?" I was not asking if you would like to hear my opinion, as you have already heard it, but rather the evidence behind it.
You are right, I did mix you up with someone else :) There have been so many people against what I said. Sorry!
I did specifically say, "would you like to hear the evidence I have to support my opinion?" I was not asking if you would like to hear my opinion, as you have already heard it, but rather the evidence behind it.
I immediately thought of Brian Sell (13:58/28:36), whose marathon PR is exactly the same as Richtman's previous PR. I wonder how Sell would've performed in the super shoes.
Guys, 2:07 is not that fast. Why are we freaking out? It's "fast for an American" I suppose but he's literally 4-5 minutes away from winning a real race.
2:07 is good if we assume a lot of the world-class times are simply out of the question for American runners due to something related to physiology. Let's be honest, 2:02 marathons or faster can't be run by people whose 1/2 PRs are 1:01.
So a) a top-20 time ever run by an American is by definition good for Americans and b) LA is a real race. We can't only care about Marathon Majors if we want our guys to get experience racing and winning.
