Uh...what? I can't make sense of this word vomit other than you apparently making up in your head that Ashkenazim (central/Eastern European Jews) think they're the only real Jews. Literally no one thinks that.
Israel has, and equally recognizes as Jews, all of those ethnicities, to the extent of airlifting almost all the Ethiopian Jews out of war-torn Ethiopia in the 80s and 90s and giving them Israeli citizenship.
Name all the Prime Ministers of Israel who were not Ashkenazi.
Israel’s sense of entitlement to land that is by any objective measure not theirs reminds me of legacy admissions.
Here’s an “objective measure” for you… Jews have lived in that land for over 3,000 years despite various attempts to relocate them and exterminate them. The land was called Israel and Judea way, way before the word Palestine was even invented.
I don't understand your point. Indigenous "Americans" arrived anywhere from 13,000 - 23,000 yrs ago depending on who you read. Can they say finders-keepers and claim all the land back, instead of the tiny scrubland reservations they have now?
Am I understanding this correctly? Israel exists because people from all over the world simply moved to a place that was already inhabited and said "this land is ours now"?
Shocking that this created conflict!
88 upvotes for a comment that demonstrates complete and total ignorance on the subject.
Jews have lived in the region continuously for 3000 years.
They were expelled and colonized and occupied by the Babylonias, Assyrians. Egyptians, Romans, muslims and Christians, Ottomans, and British...
Jews were living there before zionism began. The Jews that came after zionism bought the land they lived on from Arabs who sold them the land willingly.
The few arabs on the land never had a state at any point in history. There was never a "Palestine". The Romans renamed the province from Judaea to Palestine after they crushed the Jews after the Jewish revolt in 70 AD just to insult the Jews.
After the Ottoman Empire collapsed the British Empire swooped in and took control. In a nice bit of double dealing they promised both the arabs and the Jews their own state on the same land.
So the Jews being the most persecuted people on the planet took them up on the offer and began moving to the area and buying land.
Here’s an “objective measure” for you… Jews have lived in that land for over 3,000 years despite various attempts to relocate them and exterminate them. The land was called Israel and Judea way, way before the word Palestine was even invented.
I don't understand your point. Indigenous "Americans" arrived anywhere from 13,000 - 23,000 yrs ago depending on who you read. Can they say finders-keepers and claim all the land back, instead of the tiny scrubland reservations they have now?
No, they can’t, but neither can either of Jews or Arabs in that region for that matter. The way it always has worked and will continue to work is that military might wins the day. We all know which side has that might today.
The ancient land of Israel and Judea and all that is just irrelevant blah.
Without getting into the muck, I want to make two technical contributions.
Christian Muslim and Arab are ignorant categories of analysis here. Christianity and Islam were founded by Jewish people - unless you believe Prophet Muhammad actually spoke to heaven, and that “Arabs” weren’t themselves converted in the same way that say Balochis Zanzibaris or Persians were.
Arab is a race science category that is also barely useful. The statement Jewish people have lived in the Middle East continuously is undeniably true, but following from the above….. just as you have Christian Arabs you also have Jewish Arabs and Arab Jews. This is tangential to the question of settler colonialism.
Another technical observation, for non-right wing conservatives, the relevant point about the US vs Israel is surely one of direction of travel?
Not at all absolving either society of foundational crimes, it seems relevant that one is working towards dissolving identity boundaries and repairing historic wrongs (no matter how cosmetically) while the other is intransigent in a trajectory towards emphasis on ethnic difference and hierarchy.
Everyone who brings this up is in fact a one-stater?
The use of “state” in this statement is also mistaken….. as is the assumptions of steady state polities through time. Many territories didn’t have ethnonational states in them. This doesn’t delegitimise the residence claims of those who inhabit them.
The German and Italian states are pretty recent. The first Greek king was a German dude. The greatest French and Russian emperors were from colonies.
The idea that all people of ethnicity X have a true homeland in territory Y is absolutely fundamentally Nazi-adjacent. It is the basis of expulsions that insist on ethnic cleansing.
Ethnicity nationalism and race are very context-dependent processes of negotiation, imposed or embraced, shifting through time. People who are ethnicity X today haven’t always been that. Mergers fissions conversions assimilations have happened through all history. Residence matters, all else is dangerous.
The use of “state” in this statement is also mistaken….. as is the assumptions of steady state polities through time. Many territories didn’t have ethnonational states in them. This doesn’t delegitimise the residence claims of those who inhabit them.
The German and Italian states are pretty recent. The first Greek king was a German dude. The greatest French and Russian emperors were from colonies.
The idea that all people of ethnicity X have a true homeland in territory Y is absolutely fundamentally Nazi-adjacent. It is the basis of expulsions that insist on ethnic cleansing.
Ethnicity nationalism and race are very context-dependent processes of negotiation, imposed or embraced, shifting through time. People who are ethnicity X today haven’t always been that. Mergers fissions conversions assimilations have happened through all history. Residence matters, all else is dangerous.
The only people advocating for ethnic cleansing from 1920 to today are the pro-Palestinian groups.
The suggestion that people who had continuous habitation in a place for 3000 years thinking they have a claim to the land is "Nazi-adjacent" is ridiculous and offensive.
The Jews have had constant unbroken residence in the area for 3,000 years.
The Jews have had constant unbroken residence in the area for 3,000 years.
Then why did the Euro Jews come in and violently expel @ 750k Palestinians from their homes and their land in 1948?
They didn't show up in 1948. They returned to joins the Jews already living there starting in the 1890s.
They didn't randomly expel 750k Palestinians in 1948. 5 Arab nations invaded Israel with the stated goal of killing all of the Jews and ending any possibility of a Jewish state forever. The arabs told their people to leave the war zone with the belief that they could waltz back in and live there after they killed all of the Jews.
They lost the war and every war they started after that.
Then why did the Euro Jews come in and violently expel @ 750k Palestinians from their homes and their land in 1948?
They didn't show up in 1948. They returned to joins the Jews already living there starting in the 1890s.
They didn't randomly expel 750k Palestinians in 1948. 5 Arab nations invaded Israel with the stated goal of killing all of the Jews and ending any possibility of a Jewish state forever. The arabs told their people to leave the war zone with the belief that they could waltz back in and live there after they killed all of the Jews.
They lost the war and every war they started after that.
Uh...what? I can't make sense of this word vomit other than you apparently making up in your head that Ashkenazim (central/Eastern European Jews) think they're the only real Jews. Literally no one thinks that.
Israel has, and equally recognizes as Jews, all of those ethnicities, to the extent of airlifting almost all the Ethiopian Jews out of war-torn Ethiopia in the 80s and 90s and giving them Israeli citizenship.
Name all the Prime Ministers of Israel who were not Ashkenazi.
Irrelevant. No Jew has ever been President of the USA. That doesn't mean that anyone thinks that Jews aren't real Americans.
Well, some people think that...white supremacists, black supremacists, Muslim supremacists, you, and other idiots.
They didn't show up in 1948. They returned to joins the Jews already living there starting in the 1890s.
They didn't randomly expel 750k Palestinians in 1948. 5 Arab nations invaded Israel with the stated goal of killing all of the Jews and ending any possibility of a Jewish state forever. The arabs told their people to leave the war zone with the belief that they could waltz back in and live there after they killed all of the Jews.
They lost the war and every war they started after that.
Palestinians "refugees" by choice.
They didn't show up in Palestine in 1948?
They were living there since the 1890s?
Who got killed in the Holocaust in Europe?
Why are you pretending the 1890s to 1947 didn't happen?
1. Jews were already living in the area and in Jerusalem prior to the 1890s.
2. When zionism kicked off in the 1890's more Jews from everywhere started returning to Israel. Including Europe.
It is ahistorical BS to pretend that the Jews didn't show up until after the Holocaust.
The british promised the arabs and the jews a state after WW1. They literally offered the Jews and Arabs a state in the 1930s. The arabs said no.
After WW2 and the Holocaust the UN offered the palestinians and the Jews a state and the arabs said no. The Jews declared independence and all the arab nations invaded to try to kill off the Jews.