get me a beer wrote:
If I could only have one, I would take Oly Gold over a WR in a NY second.
I agree and for the reason that a person truly owns a gold medal whereas the WR is theirs on borrowed time. But, the question isn't which would you want, but rather which is more prestigious to internet voters.
im not a dumb dumb wrote:
rocky mtns wrote:
I understand both arguments, but likewise who will most remember... Farah or Mamede?
Bro, multiple Olympic golds spread over multiple events puts you in another stratosphere of rememberence (and all time ranking). Not a fair comparison at all.
Fair enough. Ok then, Mamede or any other Olympic 10k champ?!
As someone else posted, it's complicated. In some cases I'd want the Gold, maybe in other circumstances I'd want the WR. To be so fortunate to be only one or the other!?!
CycloneAlum wrote:
get me a beer wrote:
If I could only have one, I would take Oly Gold over a WR in a NY second.
I agree and for the reason that a person truly owns a gold medal whereas the WR is theirs on borrowed time. But, the question isn't which would you want, but rather which is more prestigious to internet voters.
No
The question is who would you rank as a better all time runner - Ryun or Centro
Ryun didn’t set one world record.
He set a world record in the half mile, the 1500 and the mile (which lasted 8 years).
He set the high school mile record.
He got an Olympic Silver medal.
It’s the cumulative efforts.
This topic is not if a world record is more prestigious than an Olympic medal.
It invoked this ranking between the two, so it must consider their entire career.
Plenty of other threads asked the other question.
Let me put it this way: In times of need:
1-How much an Olympic Gold medal con go for if sold to a serious collector, or at a serious auction?
2-How much can you ask for the newspaper from the day you broke a world record that eventually somebody else or several others broke over the years?
You get my drift ?
Not fair to use Maree in this comparison because he wasn't allowed to run in the Olympics during his peak because South Africans were not allowed to compete. He didn't gain US citizenship until later in his career. For his early career, the NCAA's were his biggest meet.
His NCAA 1500 mark was incredible, and was actually a solo effort in the semi's of the IC4A's at Franklin Field. He then won 2 events the next day, leading a 1-4 sweep by Villanova in the 1500.
It's important to remember that this is Letsrun, not the population at large, or even the entire running community. If Flotrack or some other outlet that caters to a different crowd did a similar polling tournament, the women's winner probably would be Jenny or Shalane, and the men's winner would have been Centro, Rupp, or Lagat.
All Letsrun proved is that Letsrun views world records as superior to Olympic Gold, not that anyone beyond that does.
casual obsever wrote:
Bio Dome wrote:
would you rather have had the career of Asafa Powell or Mo Farrah? I'm more of a fan of Powell, but I think Mo has left a bigger mark on the sport.
Well Mo has a lot more than "just" one Olympic Gold.
A better comparison would be between, say, Patrick Makau and Stephen Kiprotich.
Obviously kiprotich here, no?
Billy Mills - Olympic Gold in the 10000m (1964) with a time of 28:24
or
Pyotr Bolotnikov - WR in the 10000m (1962) with a time of 28:18
Which achievement would you rather have?
Most people on letsrun are either of boomer age, or wish they were. Of course they vote for the guy from the 60s and 70s. They think all the greatest runners came from that time period, and everybody else since is either worse or a drug cheat. Centrowitz has run faster the Ryun in the 1500m and mile, has won an Olympic gold and many USA titles, and had to compete with the might of East Africa for that Olympic title. Ryun had to compete against a bunch of white guys that would hardly be NCAA All-Americans nowadays.
Swedish Pride wrote:
I've always seen world champs (and of course diamond league) as far more competitive than the Olympics.
Because they're every 4 years, the field in the oly has a lot of churn: the on-form guy 2 years before the olympics has more chance of getting injured / have a bad selection race / losing shape of momentum for any reason in the run up to the Olympics. It happens really often. Preparation over such a long period of time is really tough.
There's also lots of pressure on the athletes during the Olympics, so they tend to run tactical (dare I say boring) races to avoid throwing away 4 years of training in a bravado move. That's understandable but it also lessens the value of the Olympic gold, where athletes are theoretically expected t provide their best effort (for the whole race).
But back to the main topic, a world record is based on the notion of best effort. In fact of best effort ever. It is painful, unique, unreachable at the time and (except in doping cases) unquestionable.
An olympic gold defines the best athlete, in a particular field (not necessarily the fastest, or the deepest at the time), and with particular race conditions (not necessarily the best effort). In tactical races, even if a winner is clearly identified, there are still doubts whether this winner is really the best at the distance.
The exact same people contend for the win in world and Olympic finals. I've never understood why people think one outweighs another.
Set a WR and no one knows except hardcore racing fans. Win Olympic gold and you're on Good Morning America, the cover of Wheaties boxes, and if you play your cards right, you can get millions in endorsements.
Leopardly wrote:
OWL wrote:
Jayjow,
Hicham El Guerrouj would agree with you. Look at how he identifies himself on IG, "Current world record holder in the 1500 meters, mile, and 2000 meters." He don't care about his collection of Olympic Gold...
https://www.instagram.com/elguerroujhicham/El Guerrouj cares a great deal about Olympic gold. He was tripped in 1996 and had to settle for silver in 2000. He continued his career to chase the Olympic gold. In 2004 he was passed by Lagat in his prime in the last 100 but searched within himself to retake the lead and finally earn his gold medal.
Yes exactly, and the Olympics were so important to him he ran the 5000m also to redeem a medal he was not able to get 4 years previously.
Following the 2004 Olympics he immediately retired despite talk of attempting the 5000m WR beforehand.Olympics mean everything.
I think the poster mentioning world ranking is also very close to the mark. It is less about the WR and more about consistency and that's how you have an impact. Plenty of guys have broken the 400m WR but we all remember MJ the best.
I'll add to my point, Mutaz Essa Barshim will be remembered as one of the greatest High Jumpers, however he has neither Olympic Gold nor a WR.
It's of course a great question and one that existed forever.
Having actually competed in an Olympic Games I always thought the answer here was an easy one - an Olympic gold medal, but an earlier post pointed out that in winning an Olympics you win one important race vs when you hold a WR you can lay claim to being the best in your event to ever do it.
That's actually not a bad argument at all, and in thinking about this it opened up so many factors I never thought about before.
The argument given "who would you rather be - Kipketer or Rodahl" is a decent one, but it is all subjective. Of course the answer here is Kipketer but he is an exceptional case for someone that never won the Olympic Games. I mean he still has an Olympic silver and bronze, 3 world titles and dominated an event for basically a decade.
On the other hand would you rather be Sydney Maree or John Walker? Maree was the World Record holder in the 1500m and Walker "merely" the Olympic Champ who never even broke 3.30? I think we all know the answer to that. How about Peter Rono or Steve Cram?
The reality is not all Olympic gold medalists are made equal and neither are world record holders. There is so much more to the resume of WR holder and to an Olympic champion to take into account before making that assessment.
I believe the general consensus amongst elite athletes is that the Olympic Gold medal is worth more. You can hold a world record but the moment it's broken you become second and can only go one direction. When you win the Olympics you remain (a) number 1 forever. The Olympics hold more prestige because they are the epitome of performing better than anyone else on the planet over a 1-4 day span that every single athlete knows about 4 years in advance and targets. You can in theory rock up to a club meet any time of the year and run a WR - planning the greatest (or close to) form of your life for such a small window of time when everyone else is doing the same - that is hard and that's what makes it special.
Back to Kipketer - I know first hand that Wilson would trade his WR for the Olympic Gold. He told me. He knew his WR would one day be broken. He didn't need the WR to know he was momentarily the best in the world at what he did or that he was close to (if not alone) the best to ever do it. That's not to say he didn't want the WR because he did - I know he just wanted the Olympic Gold medal more.
As for me? I guess I was closer than most only because I had both the opportunity to run a WR (like anyone alive does) and win the Olympics (a chance that only a very select people are lucky enough to have) because I actually toed the line - I was pretty far way on both counts compared to some. But if I had the pick I'm taking the medal too.
letsrun is full of boomers wrote:
Most people on letsrun are either of boomer age, or wish they were. Of course they vote for the guy from the 60s and 70s. They think all the greatest runners came from that time period, and everybody else since is either worse or a drug cheat. Centrowitz has run faster the Ryun in the 1500m and mile, has won an Olympic gold and many USA titles, and had to compete with the might of East Africa for that Olympic title. Ryun had to compete against a bunch of white guys that would hardly be NCAA All-Americans nowadays.
Well stated.
This.
Star wrote:
[quote]
No
The question is who would you rank as a better all time runner - Ryun or Centro
Ryun didn’t set one world record.
He set a world record in the half mile, the 1500 and the mile (which lasted 8 years).
He set the high school mile record.
He got an Olympic Silver medal.
It’s the cumulative efforts.
This topic is not if a world record is more prestigious than an Olympic medal.
It invoked this ranking between the two, so it must consider their entire career.
Plenty of other threads asked the other question.
And this.
fisky wrote:
Set a WR and no one knows except hardcore racing fans. Win Olympic gold and you're on Good Morning America, the cover of Wheaties boxes, and if you play your cards right, you can get millions in endorsements.
And also the post about letsrun being full of Boomers.
Also, as I was sitting here thinking about whether I’d have a world record or an Olympic gold, I realized that a lot of people suspect you of doping if you set a world record (myself included, only talking about 1990’s and onwards world records though and not accusing Ryun of anything!!!). Some might if you win an Olympic gold, too, but so many less than if you run a world record. For this reason I’d pick the Gold.
Titles hands down. Even better is winning the Olympics while breaking a record. Having said that a distance runner can't be the track goat. Just saying.
Salvatore Stitchmo wrote:
On the other hand would you rather be Sydney Maree or John Walker? ?
Walker has the 1 mile WR. That is close enough to having both. Both also had pretty long careers.
Would you have rathered Steve Scotts career or Peter Rono? I think I would take Steve even with the lack of medals. You can get lucky and outperform on one day. It is another thing to show up for a decade.
rocky mtns wrote:
joel wrote:
Who will you remember 20 years from now...Wilson Kipketer or Vebjorn Rodal?
I understand both arguments, but likewise who will most remember... Farah or Mamede?
I think Farah is a bad example since nearly all of us witnessed his prime. We’ll remember him regardless of how history does.
So when the next American Man Breaks the current World Record you would consider that better than Centrowitz winning a Gold Medal in the Olympics