Why you keep getting hurt: Your posterior chain is weak.

Bumps and Bruises wrote:

[quote]colorunner123 wrote:

Coach Brosnan has built a powerhouse program from nothing in just four years. The secret to his runners' success is not high mileage. The top boys are only running about 60 miles per week. No, his secret is keeping his runners healthy. They stretch before every workout and they do some kind of strength work. He specifically mentions that they work on their glutes. Not sure if they do barbell strength training or mainly bodyweight stuff.

In a previous interview about Nico Young, I think the coach said he missed much a cross season and an entire track season because he was hurt. Nico's younger brother (not sure which one) was hurt in the later part of this past season, not allowing him to run state. Jace Aschbrenner was hurt in the first half of their 2018 season and their number 2/3 from 2018 was injured at NXN. They have injuries just like everyone else. Also, Jordan Hassay is a terrible example of staying healthy.[/quote

Not true. But good try.

If you really love lifting and it is mentally stimulating for you, do it. if it stresses you out to think about doing it on top of your running workouts, don't do it.

A few years ago when Syracuse won the nat'l championship, their coach says he doesn't believe in weightlifting. Core stuff, yes. but no need for lifting. Don't need to get too fancy. planks, crunches, etc. basic stuff.

as far as stretching, good dynamic stretches after a warmup run will do the trick if you are doing enough of them and doing them focus. Static stretch after your running workout.

if you want something really minimal as far as the weights go, you can get a lot out of doing just deadlifts, lunges, and very short, explosive hill sprints. Thats probably 15 minutes for the deads and lunges. and then however long to do the hill sprints. Boom. you are more complete than most. and strong as hell.

What isn't true? The specifics of who was hurt and the timelines or that Newbury Park deals with injuries just like everyone else? Please don't turn this into another Brosnan is the greatest vs Brosnan is the worst thread. The point of thread is that lifting and whatever strength programs mentioned are the main reason for success. I was pointing out that Newbury Park and Jordan Hassay deal with injuries, while the OP used them as examples.

Mo's form on squats was sh*t, you can tell he doesn't do them often and was just doing it for the video (with a whopping 90 lbs).

I agree with all of this. Deadlifts + lunges + hill sprints would be more than adequate for the posterior chain.

Sit and kick wrote:

Mo's form on squats was sh*t, you can tell he doesn't do them often and was just doing it for the video (with a whopping 90 lbs).

I agree the form is not quite there. He needs to go deeper for starters. I also agree that 90 pounds is a little on the light side for a runner of his caliber.

Im saying anything about the coach. That would be you.

I just don't know what you're talking about injuries. I know a few guys on their team very well. Including the Young's. None of them were injured this year. Lex got very sick after he ran CIF prelims and is brother Leo filled in for him at CIF finals. Lex didn't run for 10 days so they ran his brother leo at CIF and the state championships. Since he missed so much time they stayed with Leo over lex. No injury for them. They did explain this in an interview.

And Nico was injured his freshman year from a skiing during spring break and the coach decided to just build him back slowly. Nico says in an interview that the only injury he had was growing pains. You seem to be looking for something that is not there. I'm firing back at you because I actually know them and it seems odd you think you know so much.

Also I'm not sure what you're talking about in 2018. I didn't follow them at that time, but they had their entire team run CIF, State meet and NXN that year. No injury. I just looked up their entire season and everyone ran the entire season of 2018. They had their number 2 guy miss one race. That's not an injury to most people.

Keep the peace.

louden Valley and Newbury Park have very detailed strengthening routines. Definitely helps with their success.

They have both spoke about them. I just wish someone had details

Saturday Long Run? wrote:

I believe the stretching is underrated. It gets bashed a lot these days. Most of the studies look at stretching in relation to injury prevention and their is little correlation. In terms of performance, I’m not so sure. I get the idea that you would want your muscles to be tight or wound in a similar concept to a spring. However, look at gymnasts. Gymnasts are incredibly flexible and all that stretching/flexibility doesn’t seem to hurt their explosiveness at all.

Gymnasts many times are hypermobile and their flexibility isn't a function of stretching but of genetics. That doesn't detract from your point but gymnasts aren't a good example.

I think the limbs should be able to easily travel through a ROM appropriate for your sport and ROM beyond that is of dubious use and therefore shouldn't be programmed for.

Weight training and stretching for runners has been prevalent since at least the 80’s. Go look at Coe’s training - heavy squats and tons of core. While helpful, they are not the key differentiator.

Look at mid distance times, which theoretically benefit more from the training noted above. HS 800 record is from the mid 90’s. Mile record from the early 00’s. 3200 relay times have not improved materially.

Biggest differentiator in current training, as evidenced by performances at 2 miles and above, is increased focus on aerobic and threshold training. Current coaches and athletes are universally better educated in that regard. No more hammering intervals 3-4x per week and neglecting base mileage and threshold work.

No. Its not the posterior chain. It's their self image, trying to get their scrawny worn-down asses back in 'shape'. If we ran on 4 legs, the posterior chain would be vital. But when running upright, our posterior chain only involves scrawny type 1 fibers, to stay upright. No need for power lifts.

I have found these to be far more time-efficient and running-specific than any amount of squats or deadlifts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm-XeNYIMGQ

I also do a variant where I "bounce" out of the landing on my midfoot. Also one-legged hops and jumps.

YMMV wrote:

I have found these to be far more time-efficient and running-specific than any amount of squats or deadlifts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm-XeNYIMGQ

I also do a variant where I "bounce" out of the landing on my midfoot. Also one-legged hops and jumps.

Good. Nice to see something more appropriate to runners. The amount of micro damage induced by these exercises should be minor, so there won't be a need to wait 5 to 10 days before the next workout.

No. As a grandparent of a gymnast, I can attest to the fact that gymnasts stretch all the time. It isn't mostly genetics...youthfulness?, maybe. I could never get how they would have any power left after all the static stretching they did...to the point of crying. It was old school athlete abuse! Yet, they still managed, in spite of lanky ligaments.

Good points!

My high school program does core work on M, W, F. We do hips & glutes on T, TH, S.

Later in the season, I'll add single leg squat exercises. And, towards the championship season, I'll add single leg plyos.

The weight room is optional for runners interested.

Here's our breakdown:

CORE:

*push ups

*planks, regular

*planks, side

*planks, supine

*flutter kicks

*diamonds

*body squats

*wall sits

HIPS & GLUTES:

*bretzel

*lateral leg lifts

*clams

*spinal balance

*fire hydrants

*donkey kicks

*bridges

*single leg bridges

*bridges with resistance (with partner)

*legs swings

SINGLE LEG EXERCISES:

*single leg squat

*single leg squat to hinge

*single leg runner pose

*single leg squat to hold

*single leg split squat (using bleacher)

*single leg squat (using bleacher for deep squat)

*single leg runner pose (using bleacher for deep squat)

SINGLE LEG PLYOS:

*double leg hop for height

*double leg hop for distance

*single leg hop for height

*single leg hop for distance

*double leg hop over mini-hurdles

*single leg hop over mini-hurdles

WEIGHTROOM:

*goblet squat (with dumbbell)

*step-ups with dumbbells (on plyo box)

*lunges (with dumbbell)

*farmer's carry (with dumbbell)

I tend to agree strength training is good. Just don't go to extremes. I've been a gym rat and I've been a runner, and the best strategy I've found for strength training as a supplement to running is to do it in small, frequent doses rather than big, dedicated sessions. Ie rather than 2-3x45min sessions per week, I like to do 10-20min each day depending on how much time I've got. Finishing a run and doing 10-20min of planks, pullups, pushups, kettlebell swings, light deadlifts, and step-ups has transformed my running when I've been able to do it consistently.

Old guy here. Monster walk and side steps with bands really work well for me. A lot of the things mentioned above are great but for old guys with creaky backs, etc. these two exercises are good for glutes and hips.

what are peoples thoughts on Jay Jonshon's Myrtle routine.

I start use squat toilet, used less advanced country and it do good running form overall injury prevent. I recommend By squat over hole on floor multiple time as way to go, poo do not touch heel or back of leg (as it do during direct stand up)and able use “posterior chain” practice which utmost important. in USA advanced country out of shape person sit toilet common, allow gravity over psoas stay tense titled pelvis while sphincter relax let poop go in. This not helpful exercise except disabled person late life