Why wouldn't testing positive for EPO be an automatic disqualifier for US citizenship? Ridouane Harroufi win US 15k title

rojo wrote:

Can someone tell me why in the world would we grant citizenship to an EPO cheat? There are literally BILLIONS of people that would instantly accept US citizenship if we offered it to them. Why in the hell would we grant citizenship to a guy who tested positive for EPO?

Isn't there some sort of morals clause in citizenship applications?

Or can anyone get it? I wish this was a joke.

Cheating is the most American moral. Rip of people and get rich yourself, that's the American mantra.

To apply for US citizenship, a person has to have held a Green Card for at least 5 years. Getting a GC requires being fingerprinted (along with having other biometrics registered nowadays) and going through background checks that are supposed to be extensive and thorough.

Certain criminal offenses, including possession of certain drugs held illegal by a government and many felonies like murder and terrorism, are supposed to automatically make a person ineligible for a GC.

In the GC application process, there's special emphasis for "Crimes Involving Moral Turpitude," as others have noted. But in order to be a CIMT, an offense has to be a crime in the first place.

So far as I know, getting caught "doping" with EPO and (most? all?) other substances that WADA prohibits for sports purposes isn't a violation of the civil or criminal codes of most governments, so it wouldn't make one ineligible for a GC.

Of course, sports doping can and often does involve criminal acts and conspiracies. But getting caught using a substance not allowed by WADA isn't the same as getting busted and convicted by law enforcement for possession of a substance that's illegal under a national, state or municipal law.

Except in places with the most draconian laws and squads of prying morality police, being found to have acquired and used a prescription drug without a Rx is not going to lead to a criminal conviction. Also, in most jurisdictions, possessing, manufacturing, selling, buying and smuggling of illegal drugs are the criminal offenses that are expressly prohibited and which LE focuses on, not using them.

https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/can-i-get-a-green-card-if-i-have-a-criminal-record-33820

NC Runner 34 wrote:

I'm okay if he's a citizen. I think USATF should have a clause that if you have a previous positive test for another country and you're trying to gain US citizenship you can but you can't compete for our country or at any US and/or qualifying Championships.

That violates the anti-doping code. Once a person serves the suspension, the athlete is free to compete. There was a lawsuit filed over this a few years back.

Doping is not a criminal violation in this country so it would not be an issue when it comes to the US government granting citizenship. Now if he were convicted in a court of law from dispensing controlled substances then he would not have been granted citizenship in all likelihood.

Once a person has had a GC for five years and applies for US citizenship, the application can be denied on the grounds that s/he has been found to have any one of many "Permanent Bars to Good Character" listed here:

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-f-chapter-4

In addition, a Green Card holder can have his/her citizenship application denied for a time or permanently if found to have committed certain offenses at any time during the application and naturalization process:

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-f-chapter-5

ShilohDoesntCare wrote:

I'm fine with him being a citizen and maybe even competing and winning prize money but he should not be allowed to make money at USATF races or even compete on behalf of the US internationally. They should key in on him and test him like crazy now. I don't think he's legit. Hehir called him out in the comments on a very recent Instagram post.

I get that folks do not like that drug cheats can serve their suspensions and come back to compete. I also get the hypothesis that doping can have long lasting effects. However, the rules at this time state that when an athlete can compete after serving a suspension.

If you want a lifetime ban for a first doping offense, you can try to get that passed, but when talking about a lifetime ban, I think you need better protocols and certainty than exists in the system now.

I read that. Did not see one that I think would be applied to an athlete doping.

It is great that we are not letting people who aided Nazi Germany in. (It is, at the same time they would be pretty old. BTW, loved The Hunters on Amazon and it got me reading about Operation Paperclip---that was real).

Again, I don't see anything that could seriously be applied here.

Interesting. In his post-race interview he mentioned that he was also a late entry who only signed up after he dropped out at mile 20 during the olympic marathon trials.

Statement from WADA in 2015 about whether doping in sport should be criminalized by governments:

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2015-10/wada-statement-on-the-criminalization-of-doping-in-sport

The big hurt for former dopers usually comes from not being able to get a sponsor. What shoe company would want to sponsor a drug cheat (Gatlin aside)? There is nothing usatf can do to prevent the guy from getting citizenship, competing for the us, or winning american prize money. However he should never make an appearance fee, be comped at a race, have his travel paid for (except for when usatf is required to pay the travel.

800 dude, thanks for posting what I didn't want to take the time to look up. However, we both know it's never been prosecuted as such (sure as heck would be a damn good deterrent if it *was* regularly prosecuted!), thus the precedent is set and I would assume that any competent attorney would counter a gov't attempt at disqualification by saying that there's no historical basis for the law being applied in such a manner (since there isn't, even though it seems very supportable!).

To Luv2Run, you mention "once he's served his time," but that's NOT the only stipulation of a sanction. Remember the standard language ALWAYS includes the verbiage along the lines of "forfeiture of any points, prizes, and medals." So not only do you have to sit out for 2 years (or 4), but you ALSO must satisfy the forfeiture of the aforementioned. That would absolutely include prize money, meaning that anyone who doesn't return their prize money has NOT satisfied the requirements of reinstatement, as they have NOT completed their sanction. Tyson Gay is the only high profile person I'm aware of to have ever returned prize money, not even Gatlin returned his prize money, and I'm quite certain Harouffi didn't.

Again, Robert, since you're the journalist (i'm not an elite athlete, so I don't get much standing with a complaint to usatf), can you please request usatf provide you with information regarding exactly how Harouffi has satisfied all the requirements for reinstatement? thanks buddy.

Luv2Run wrote:

Again, I don't see anything that could seriously be applied here.

I agree. I'm definitely not endorsing the idea that WADA offenses should be criminalized or considered offenses involving moral turpitude, just sharing what the process of applying for a GC and citizenship involves and what the existing regs say.

For the record, I am against supranational bodies having the power to determine or dictate what should be considered a civil or criminal offense by any sovereign government.

sbeefyk2 wrote:

There's no law in any state or the federal level that says you cannot take EPO.

There's no law that says you can't randomly take prescription only drugs without a prescription?!?! Did you just actually write that? BTW, EPO IS a drug.

sbeefyk2, you have been on here a long time, and I think you now better than that!!!

true dicslosure wrote:

I'm sure if he was white Rojo would be saying how he deserves a 2nd chance and everyone makes mistakes.

Bullśhit. Go away with your racist preconceptions. He’s just another jerk that doped.

Please stop sniffing glue before you post. Or do us all a favor and stop posting. We are all now dumber for having read any of your posts lately

Here we have someone who's never been close friends with an immigrant:

sugarfoot wrote:

sbeefyk2 wrote:

There's no law in any state or the federal level that says you cannot take EPO.

There's no law that says you can't randomly take prescription only drugs without a prescription?!?! Did you just actually write that? BTW, EPO IS a drug.

sbeefyk2, you have been on here a long time, and I think you now better than that!!!

People are assuming that he obtained the drug in the US.

hey what’s the big idea wrote:

How are you in charge of a website?

This is an easy answer.

1) I was lucky and was in college when the internet came out and thought - running should be on the internet.

2) I have a good knack for finding "newsworthy" info that others don't find and I know what people like to talk about. As I was about to walk out of the office, I noticed a result from a race that has been over for quite some time and saw something no one else has bothered to talk about it. I put it on this site as I walked out and come back on here and there are 60 posts.

3) I'm not afraid to state my opinion. A third of the people may disagree - people like you - but you can't stop from coming back time after time and I get paid every time you do.