Beet juice... what are you taking?

a handle a day wrote:

YMMV wrote:

That stuff is loaded with toxic oxalates. Straight-up "natural" poison.

STFU! Stop spreading lies on a daily basis!

S/he's not lying. Beets are relatively high in oxalate. If you are prone to kidney stones, guzzling lots and lots of beet juice might not be the best idea (although I have yet to see any data indicating an increased risk).

While we are on the topic of safety, *any* food source containing large amounts of nitrate and especially nitrite will increase formation of potentially carcinogenic nitrosamines. This includes vegetables such as beets, which in fact are a greater source of nitrate in the diet than cured meats. Yet, perhaps because of the presence of other substances (e.g., antioxidants, fiber), vegetable intake is actually associated with a reduction in cancer risk, whereas cured meats seem to increase it.

What about snake oil. I've read so much about it. Is it as good as beetroot juice?

The studies cited in the PubMed article typically used 11.8mmol of NO3 about 2.5 hours before exercise. How much is that for a human? My best guess is that it's about 1,500mg. Is that right? BeetElite only contains 400mg. Plus, at $3.50/bottle, it's too pricey for me to use every day.

Still, as a masters 800m runner, I may give it a try for my hard workouts only. I'll order a case (15 bottles) and try an identical 800m time trial with and with the Beet Elite and report back on this thread in February. It will be anecdotal. Plus, for some reason, I really hate the taste of beet juice.

a handle a day wrote:

YMMV wrote:

Vegans have a serious problem with facts.

So do you.

Vegan brain deterioration in full evidence. Evidence in this case of excessive oxalates:

"iv. Brain problems – sleep, mood, behavior, cognition, organizational ability, autism"

Sorry, I haven't studied snake oil (although I did once work in a lab that studied snake muscle). Is there a known mechanism by which it might have beneficial physiological effects? If so, maybe I can get another $1+ million dollars from NIH to study it. ;)

I got a bag of AltRed capsules at an expo. They def seem to help when I took them before workouts, but idk, perhaps it was placebo. AltRed claims "betalains" are a performance enhancer.

Capsules turned my pee red. A bottle of that stuff is slightly on the expensive side, and something about their website seems like they're pushing snake oil.

YMMV wrote:

a handle a day wrote:

So do you.

Vegan brain deterioration in full evidence. Evidence in this case of excessive oxalates

Let's see if your tiny brain can understand this, once and for all: I am not vegan. You and the preaching vegans are all extremely annoying radicals!!!

You lie, manipulate, insult, in order to "show" that your diet is the most amazing diet ever!

You and the preaching vegans should just be happy with your choices, share your experiences with those who want to know about them, and stop shoving your shi.t down our throats.

Based on that value (i.e., 11.8 mmol), you seem to be referencing our studies?

Anyway, the molecular weight of nitrate is 62 mg/mmol, and it seem to take a *minimum* of ~5 mmol, or ~300 mg, to have measurable effects on performance.

You can refer to Edgar's paper that I linked to above to determine what sources would provide this much (most won't). As I said before, though, I usually just point people toward Beet It (*not* Beet Elite), as it is usually readily available and is more consistent in terms of nitrate content (but still has a CV of 40%).

Andrew Coggan wrote:

Sorry, I haven't studied snake oil (although I did once work in a lab that studied snake muscle). Is there a known mechanism by which it might have beneficial physiological effects? If so, maybe I can get another $1+ million dollars from NIH to study it. ;)

Snake oil is a wonder drug. It cures every known illness and boosts VO2 max by 11%

I juice two small organic beets and a granny smith apple in my Omega juicer two or three times a week either before or after a tough workout or long run. Tastes great and fresh, which I prefer to juices or pills which may have who knows what else in them. I do feel sharper on runs but don't feel any immediate effect after runs, however the science for improving recovery seems basic and beneficial.

I think I'm in the minority, but I love beets, even raw. Instead of paying out the you-know-what for BeetElite or other brands beet juice (that is typically laden with sugar) I'll blend beets with frozen blueberries, spinach, and almond milk. No added sugar, super high in anti-inflammatory properties and antioxidants.

Raw beets are super cheap; I'm sorry your parents never fed y'all vegetables as kids

If you don't want pay the exorbitatn amount for Beet Elite, try Bulk Supplements:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B017KYQCFU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Andrew Coggan wrote:

Nitrate is like creatine: tissue (including muscle) stores are both responsive to, and dependent upon, dietary intake as well as endogenous synthesis. Thus, although those who are deficient are most likely to benefit (which is why we are studying patients with heart failure as well as older subjects), even healthy young individuals may do so as well.

Furthermore, nitric oxide signaling is involved in numerous physiological functions. You therefore have to recognize that the amount of nitric oxide required to optimize one function may different than the amount required to optimize another. As I mentioned before, muscle power seems more responsive to nitrate supplementation (increasing 2-3X more than sustainable power), and even moderately and highly trained power/sprint athletes show improved performance.

This doesn't answer the question. Why should extra NO make any difference? It merely restates the premise and then speculates about varying "optimal" amounts, without any evidence that these optima are beyond the levels already supplied by a normal diet.

Since you seem to be pushing a product, I won't believe a word of this without conclusive proof.

a handle a day wrote:

YMMV wrote:

Vegan brain deterioration in full evidence. Evidence in this case of excessive oxalates

Let's see if your tiny brain can understand this, once and for all: I am not vegan. You and the preaching vegans are all extremely annoying radicals!!!

You lie, manipulate, insult, in order to "show" that your diet is the most amazing diet ever!

You and the preaching vegans should just be happy with your choices, share your experiences with those who want to know about them, and stop shoving your shi.t down our throats.

I simply shared a fact, and you threw a tantrum with o counterevidence. I will concede that your brain damage may have etiology other than vegan malnutrition.

Your question is akin to asking, why would having more red blood cells increase VO2max? After all, your body makes those as well; shouldn't the amount produced normally/naturally be optimal? (The answer, obviously, is no, at least with respect to VO2max.)

To be more direct: dietary nitrate supplementation improves muscle speed and power apparently by increasing either the amount of Ca2+ released from the SR during sub-saturating conditions, and/or by increasing the Ca2+ sensitivity of the contractile machinery itself. This is one of many actions of nitric oxide, which can apparently be magnified/enhanced by driving nitric oxide production via the nitrate -> nitrite -> nitric oxide pathway.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6138552/

And no, I'm not pushing a product - just answering questions about a topic that I happen to know something about (having contributed to the scientific literature on the subject).

adiBRO wrote:

I juice two small organic beets and a granny smith apple in my Omega juicer two or three times a week either before or after a tough workout or long run. Tastes great and fresh, which I prefer to juices or pills which may have who knows what else in them. I do feel sharper on runs but don't feel any immediate effect after runs, however the science for improving recovery seems basic and beneficial.

Do you get that slightly flared nostral effect? I do when running after taking beets. It's weird, almost feels like you are getting an increased oxygen intake. whether you actually are or not I don't know - it's almost a bit the nasal feeling when snorting a good line of cocaine...

YMMV wrote:

a handle a day wrote:

You simply shared a lie, as you do on a daily basis.

As you insult me again, go fvck yourself, you lying pork-breath turd.

Honorary vegan brain damage award.

All the B12-deficient tantrums in the world won't take toxic oxalates out of beet juice. But sorry about facts lol.

Sorry fvckface, my grandparents ate beetles for years. They lived, healthily, into their 90s. You? You are the one who bought into veganism and now "meatanism". You are the easy one to brainwash. You will be dead wsy before you turn 90.

By the way, 8b for you.

Sorry about facts lol.

a handle a day wrote:

YMMV wrote:

Honorary vegan brain damage award.

All the B12-deficient tantrums in the world won't take toxic oxalates out of beet juice. But sorry about facts lol.

Sorry fvckface, my grandparents ate beetles for years. They lived, healthily, into their 90s. You? You are the one who bought into veganism and now "meatanism". You are the easy one to brainwash. You will be dead wsy before you turn 90.

By the way, 8b for you.

Sorry about facts lol.

A peculiar aspect of OCD vegan brain-damage is the critical, vital need to always have the last post in a thread, despite having been completely unable to argue against simple physiology and toxicology. #veganhistrionics

This sounds a lot better than beet juice. I'll give this a try, too. I'm not sure my smoothie blender can handle grinding nothing but beets and apples, but I'll find out. I guess I could add something liquid to it.