Who will be ROY Ja Morant or Zion Williamson?

Questionable1 wrote:

Ja over Zion.....easy.

Ja has been performing the whole season at a high level. Zion...out of shape.

Ja Morant....Rookie of the Year.

well out of shape Zion of significantly out performing Ja.......that's kind of my point.

Watching him round into shape the last couple of games, 24-9 58% FG is the floor the rest of the way. That's top 10 in NBA production.

Ja is a good starter in the NBA right now. In the upper third of NBA players

Zion is an MVP candidate quality top 10 player.

That is a huge gap.

Ja may still win, but he won't win if he averages 17 and 7. He'll have to pick it up to win.

If Zion is the next face of the NBA for the next decade, do you think voters really want to be remembered for handing the award to a guy averaging 17 and 7?

That's selling Ja short, he's special and he'll be an all-star, ....but awards are about narrative and Zion dropping 30 nightly with ease as a teenager is the story.

I mean are they really not going to give the ROY to the best rookie this century? Yes, better numbers than Lebron at the same age.

Really?

There are still ~30 games left; Ja's has only 3 advantages, has played a lot more games, his team's record is slightly better and is a better passer. Zion trumps him in everything else. A lot can still happen in 30 games, they can both get better, worse or injured. And the more games advantage is a pretty weak argument.

For ROY games played should be less important than other awards to stop rookies sitting out. Even if zion only plays in 1/3 of the games he clearly has superior talent and skill which he has proved in the games he played so far. If zion maintains his superior advanced stats and great interior play for 20 more games how could you not vote Zion.

Zion takes the lead wrote:

I mean are they really not going to give the ROY to the best rookie this century? Yes, better numbers than Lebron at the same age.

Really?

Lebron averaged 20.9 points, 5 rebounds, and 5.9 assists while playing 79 games. Those are better numbers.

coach wrote:

Zion takes the lead wrote:

I mean are they really not going to give the ROY to the best rookie this century? Yes, better numbers than Lebron at the same age.

Really?

Lebron averaged 20.9 points, 5 rebounds, and 5.9 assists while playing 79 games. Those are better numbers.

you going to keep on trotting out that old chestnut??

LeBron shot 43% from the floor.....and averaged 19 5.0 and 5.4 per 36 mins

PER of 18.3....lower than Ja's and barely top 50 in NBA

Zion is shooting 58%

averaging 28 and 10 per 36

his PER is around 26....top 10 in the NBA.....and ahead of current MVP candidate LeBron.

I don't think Zion will approach LeBron careerwise, but right now Zion is clearly putting up better numbers than LeBron did as a rookie

games played is very poor metric for ROY.....we not talking about MVP here. we're talking about the best rookie

that's clearly been Zion

Ja plays the tougher position and has brought a team that was supposed to be one of the 3 worst into playoff contention. Night in and night out he has to guard or is guarded by some of the best players in the western conference. How many other good players are on his team? Who else do you need to focus on stopping? Yet he has won games at the buzzer for his team.

Zion plays on a team that many thought has a chance to make the playoffs. He is fed by Jrue Holiday and Lonzo Ball. He has better players around him who give him space to catch lobs or grab rebounds. He doesn't have to guard Chris Paul, Westbrook, Lillard, Mitchell, Rubio, Fox etc...

Zion takes the lead wrote:

coach wrote:

Lebron averaged 20.9 points, 5 rebounds, and 5.9 assists while playing 79 games. Those are better numbers.

you going to keep on trotting out that old chestnut??

LeBron shot 43% from the floor.....and averaged 19 5.0 and 5.4 per 36 mins

PER of 18.3....lower than Ja's and barely top 50 in NBA

Zion is shooting 58%

averaging 28 and 10 per 36

his PER is around 26....top 10 in the NBA.....and ahead of current MVP candidate LeBron.

I don't think Zion will approach LeBron careerwise, but right now Zion is clearly putting up better numbers than LeBron did as a rookie

games played is very poor metric for ROY.....we not talking about MVP here. we're talking about the best rookie

that's clearly been Zion

The better player? Yes Zion. Who was better in 2016/17 Embiid who averaged 20 points in his 30 games while only playing 25 minutes each game or Brogdon who averaged 10 and had 4 assists in his 75 games? Who won ROY?

coach wrote:

Ja plays the tougher position and has brought a team that was supposed to be one of the 3 worst into playoff contention. Night in and night out he has to guard or is guarded by some of the best players in the western conference. How many other good players are on his team? Who else do you need to focus on stopping? Yet he has won games at the buzzer for his team.

Zion plays on a team that many thought has a chance to make the playoffs. He is fed by Jrue Holiday and Lonzo Ball. He has better players around him who give him space to catch lobs or grab rebounds. He doesn't have to guard Chris Paul, Westbrook, Lillard, Mitchell, Rubio, Fox etc...

Zion just put up 30 and 9 against the leading shot-blocker in the league.

Ja is 70th in PER

Zion is 8th

not even in the same conversation.

coach wrote:

The better player? Yes Zion. Who was better in 2016/17 Embiid who averaged 20 points in his 30 games while only playing 25 minutes each game or Brogdon who averaged 10 and had 4 assists in his 75 games? Who won ROY?

Embid still got a third of the first place votes, even though the narrative wasn't very good...(he had already sat out 2 years and many people viewed the Sixers as intentionally tanking...giving him the ROY would be viewed as endorsing tanking by some)

the vote will very very close, I'll give you that.

I think the better parralell is 1985-86

Ewing averaged 20.0 points, 9.0 rebounds and 2.1 blocks in 50 games

Seattle forward Xavier McDaniel, who averaged 17.1 points and 8.0 rebounds in 80 games

Ewing won

Zion's narrative and stats matches Ewing, Xaviers stats and games played match Ja's. seems like a pretty good precedent.

Voters are generally aware they made a mistake by not giving embiid ROY, so a lot will switch their thinking this time if its similar by the end of the season.

Zion is obliterating all other Rookies. Unstoppable. Anyone who saw him at Duke knew this was going to happen.

Knee injury issues are vastly overblown. He has always been fine at his size. His first knee injury was traumatic not overuse (shoe blew out).

Literally the best athlete to play in the NBA -- ever.

Shoe in for ROY

The Ewing McDaniel parallel is good but Ewing played 50 games, Zion wont play more than 35.

I dont think it's fair to put so much emphasis on PER. A rookie point guard passing to other young players will get turnovers that will skew his efficiency rating whereas a guy catching lobs from 2 good point guards while also having Ingram and Reddick to help spread the floor will look better. Even Valanciunas and Clarke have better PERs than Morant.

coach wrote:

The Ewing McDaniel parallel is good but Ewing played 50 games, Zion wont play more than 35.

I dont think it's fair to put so much emphasis on PER. A rookie point guard passing to other young players will get turnovers that will skew his efficiency rating whereas a guy catching lobs from 2 good point guards while also having Ingram and Reddick to help spread the floor will look better. Even Valanciunas and Clarke have better PERs than Morant.

That will have zero effect on the ROY , nor should it.

Ball certainly seems like a great fit for Zion, but anyone watching the games clearly sees that it is Zion is making it happen for the most part, he's not being propped up by his team. It's the other way around. It's comically ridiculous how easy it is for anyone to throw a lob entry pass to the guy. He simply pogos over a 7 footer to grab the ball almost every time and then while the center is recovering from contesting the entry lob, Zion is already laying it off the glass. Yes having good lob passers helps, but Ball and company can't just throw those lobs to anyone.

And do you really think the voters are going to penalize Zion for having a good lob throwing PG or a team that helps balance out his game? I really like Ball's game, but he's not exactly known as a team carrying, super star-making PG. It's not as if having a PG with the ability to throw a good alley-oop is some rare unseen trait in the NBA that gives Zion an unfair advantage. Zero voters will vote for Ja over Zion based on this.

Also, ....you advocate for not counting Ja's turnovers against Ja because.....being a rookie point guard is hard? ? ?

You want to know what else is hard? Being 6'6" and jumping over 7 footers for alley-oops....but Zion is doing it every game. If he missed those , would you not want to count those against him? Because they are hard? So is scoring 30 points in the NBA as a teenager. Awards go to those who can the things that are hard. That's why they win. Everything counts.

I'm saying PER favors certain type of players. Turnovers will effect PER but turnovers isn't the fault of the player who is given the turnover. Field goal percentage can be overrated if you only shoot from close to the basket. Certain stats can effect PER which is why PER can be an overrated stat and should not be used alone. Zion after 10 games having a great PER is not the stat to use.

Zion's got a play in almost all the remaining games. If he does that and keeps Putting up the numbers he does. He'll probably get it.

Zion will win ROY. Eye test. Ask any 10 year old which player does he want on his team, Zion or Ja ?

If Zion stays healthy he will be better than LeBron. He has a better outside shot.

the future is here wrote:

Zion will win ROY. Eye test. Ask any 10 year old which player does he want on his team, Zion or Ja ?

If Zion stays healthy he will be better than LeBron. He has a better outside shot.

Zion is the most compelling player to come along in years. I've been watching all of his games. But his outside shot is not good. After going 4-4 from 3 in his opening game, he's 0-7 since, most of those bricks. LeBron has always been decent (I didn't say great) on 3s and long 2s and has hit a lot of clutch jumpers. Zion may prove to be better from outside than LeBron, but based on his few games so far he's not there yet.

the future is here wrote:

Zion will win ROY. Eye test. Ask any 10 year old which player does he want on his team, Zion or Ja ?

If Zion stays healthy he will be better than LeBron. He has a better outside shot.

I'll take Zion too, but that doesn't mean he's rookie of the year.