Ndereba "Best", Radcliffe "Fastest"

fastest wins = best. period.

In a head to head bet I would take Paula without a doubt, just wanted to clarify where I think the article is coming from.

fastest wins = best. period.

___________________

Maybe, maybe not.

Bill Rodgers never ran within a minute of Alberto Salazar's PR (okay, short course PR at NYC.) I doubt many would deny that BR was the better marathoner, career-wise.

Well, there is a valid argument for claiming that 'fastest' does not necessarily mean the best... Different days, different conditions, different opposition... etc. But comparing Ndereba to Radcliffe is nothing short of a freaking joke.

At the top of their ability, Radcliffe is three minutes faster than Ndereba... Were they separated by a few seconds, Ndereba would have a legitimate claim to being the best, but three minutes, in marathon terms is a proper ass-whooping; a different league all together!!!

I feel strongly it's an insult not only to Radcliffe, but to any marathon runner's intelligence to suggest otherwise!

And you can say what you want about Radcliffe's championship record -she has had her fair share of bad luck as much as anything else- she's still got multiple world x-country titles, half-marathon wc, european and common wealth gold medalist... There simply isn't any other woman -nor was there- with this type of ability over a range of distances.... But what is more, what appeals to people, is her guts and determination. How can Ndereba even compare???

Freaking jokers....

I'll even venture to suggest that if Radcliffe can recapture her 2H15 shape, there is not one woman who will be able to live with her pace over 10000m... I mean, most calculators make that equivalent to sub 29.

Granted, Radcliffe does better over longer distances... but hell, it suggests she could still be capable of a 29:30.

I mean, there's no doubting that... Please show me hoe Ndereba even compares???

yeah, I mean the only thing I can think of that would approach what she has done to the event -and distance events in general, would be Tergat now running a couple of 2H03s and a 2H01... What could you say to that? Baldini may not be the fastest, but he's still the greatest???

I have never seen Ndereba crying by the side of the road.

So much for stiff upper lip. Oh yeah, that was bad luck.

Your point being?

The best means the whole package.

Not just a greyhound with great PBs.

Some Olympic hardware.

And oh yeah I've watched Ndereba come storming back to win the Boston Marathon in the hills on an 85 degree day.

If Paula had showed up for that one they would have had to scrape her off the tar.

well put... In fact, Paula's attitude to running (even in defeat) reminds me of Jonesy's balls to the wall approach to the marathon. I mean, shit, to go from mile 2, at a pace 4mins faster than any other woman's ever been requires not only guts, but also totally throwing caaution to the wind.

Ndereba? I don't think so....

I know she's been written off already, but just as you seem to imply, I also believe PR will take the gold in the 10000m.

Show me her medal "mate",

show me her medal.

You are right - Paula's 4 fastest marathons average out to 2:17:20, while Catherine's come out to 2:19:50. (and that inlcudes a Boston for Ndereba which is considered aided) Also, Paula beat her head to head in Chicago '02 - by over 2 minutes.

There is no contest here- Paula is in a different universe.

How short everyone's memory is. Let me get the results...

2004 Athens Olympics

1. Noguchi (JPN) GOLD

2. Ndereba (KEN) SILVER

3. Drossin (USA) BRONZE

DNF. Radcliffe (GBR)

RADCLIFFE LOST HEAD-TO-HEAD THE LAST TIME THESE TWO RACED ON THE WORLD'S LARGEST STAGE. Stick your excuses where they belong.

World Records mean nothing.

Paula Radcliffe is Paul Tergat, actually Tergat placed better at the Olympics.

She is no Olympic or World Champion, but she is the fastest, just not the best. Period.

Here they are (plus other significant results):

1500m

European Cup

2nd, 4:05.92

St P'burg, 1998

3000m

Grand Prix Final

4th, 8:46.19

Münich, 1999

European Cup

3rd, 8:52.79

Münich, 1997

Grand Prix Final

4th, 8:42.55

Monaco, 1995

World Champs

7th, 8:40.40

Stuttgart, 1993

World Juniors

4th, 8:51.78

Seoul, 1992

5000m

European Cup

1st, 14:29.11

Bydgoszcz, 2004

C'wealth Games

1st, 14:31.42

Manchester, 2002

European Cup

2nd, 14:49.84

Bremen, 2001

European Cup

1st, 14:48.79

Paris, 1999

European Cup

1st, 15:06.88

St P'burg, 1998

Grand Prix Final

3rd, 15:17.02

Fukuoka, 1997

World Champs

4th, 15:01.74

Athens, 1997

Grand Prix Final

4th, 14:56.36

Milan, 1996

Olympic Games

5th, 15:13.11

Atlanta, 1996

World Champs

5th, 14:57.02

Gothenburg, 1995

10,000m

Euro Champs

1st, 30:01.09

Münich, 2002

World Champs

4th, 31:50.06

Edmonton, 2001

Olympic Games

4th, 30:26.97

Sydney, 2000

World Champs

2nd, 30:27.13

Seville, 1999

Euro Champs

5th, 31:36.51

Budapest, 1998

Half Marathon

World HM Champs

1st, 1:07:35

Vilamoura, 2003

World HM Champs

1st, 1:06:47

Bristol, 2001

World HM Champs

1st, 1:09:07

Veracruz, 2000

Cross Long Race

World XC Champs

1st, 26:55

Dublin, 2002

World XC Champs

1st, 27:49

Ostend, 2001

World XC Champs

5th, 26:03

Vilamoura, 2000

World XC Champs

3rd, 28:12

Belfast, 1999

World XC Champs

2nd, 25:42

Marrakech, 1998

World XC Champs

2nd, 20:55

Torino, 1997

World XC Champs

19th, 21:13

S'bosch, 1996

World XC Champs

18th, 21:14

Durham, 1995

World XC Champs

18th, 20:34

Amorebieta, 1993

Cross Short Race

World XC Champs

2nd, 14:47

Ostend, 2001

World XC Champs

4th, 13:01

Vilamoura, 2000

World Junior XC

1st, 13:30

Boston, 1992

World Junior XC

15th, 14:50

Antwerp, 1991

That is an exceptional resume.

I thought we were discussing marathoning.

Ok, you're still being daft...

3xLondon

1xChicago

1xNYC

PB: 2:15:25

Head to head against Ndereba:

Paula vs Ndereba

Marathon, Chicago '02

1st, 2:17:18 2nd, 2:19:26

Marathon, London '03

1st, 2:15:25 2nd, 2:19:55

6 Miles, London '03

1st, 14:51 5th, 15:36

Marathon, OG '04

DNF 2nd, 2:26:32

TOTAL

3 1

and this arguement, may be determined on august 14th, then again the results of august 14th may just heat up this arguement. everyone enjoy the race. the quote is the writers opinion, is he right or wrong? time will tell.

Paula's record against her main opponents:

http://www.paularadcliffe.com/stats/heads.php

I am a big fan of Paula R.

If all races were run in the cooler conditions which are favorable to her, we wouldn't even have this thread.

Unfortunately for Paula a fair amount of races are actually run in the heat.

For this reason, and because this reason resulted in her not medaling, I could not declare her unconditionally to be the best. Just my opinion.