What shoe were the Americans wearing in Chicago?

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5 years ago 10/14/2019 9:17pm EDT

re: Yeahhhh

Yeahhhh wrote:
To be fair Rojo, not every runner in that American men’s pack was wearing Vaporfly’s and they were still able to hang. I would wager that the Vaporfly advantage isn’t “minutes” but perhaps about a minute or so. I hope we stop with this shoe nonsense though. It’s messing with the spirit of the sport...

You think it's only a minute? I think it's more than that.

I'm not saying it's just Vaporfly. The only good news is the other shoe companies are finally now coming out with their Vaporfly copycats. Most of them still aren't commercially available.

Here is an email I got from a pro on the list below today.

"Not sure how much I’m allowed to say about the shoes. They are the same prototype racer you’ve seen us racing in for the last year or so. Just some changes to upper. I seem to remember *** *** doing a longer interview about them for this summer. They are set for a commercial release in the not so distant future. "

I appreciate them writing me back but that shows you HOW SCREWED UP OUR SPORT IS.

, I'm putting a mental * next to Rupp's medal in Rio as a result. He finished 59 seconds ahead of 4th. Were his shoes 59 seconds better than Ghirmay Ghebreslassie's

Here is an update on the chart. It appears that 8 of the 10 men below ran in the Vaporflys or a pair of shoes that aren't commercially available yet but are another shoe company's version of the Vaporfly.

Jacob Riley - 2:10:36 - Vaporfly

Jerrell Mock - 2:10:37 - Vaporfly

Parker Stinson - 2:10:53 - Some sort of Saucony shoe - believed to be their version of Vaporfly

Andre Bumbalough - 2:10:56 - Vaporfly

Matt Mcdonald - 2:11:30 - Vaporfly

Scott Smith - 2:11:14 - Carbon X

Brendan Gregg - 2:11:38 - Hyperion Elite

Noah Droddy - 2:11:42 - - Some sort of Saucony shoe - believed to be their version of Vaporfly

Wilkerson Given - 2:11:44 - Vaporfly

Diego Estrada - 2:11:54 - New ASICS?

Emma Bates -2:25:27 - ??New ASICS?

Stephanie Bruce - 2:27:47 - ??

Lindsay Flanagan - 2:28:08 Nike Zoom Fly 3 (not 4%)

Laura Thweatt -2:29:06 ??[/quote]

5 years ago 10/15/2019 7:02am EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
Ten Americans ran under 2:12. How many of them did it with the help of a new crazy ass shoe? That's what we want to know. We think it's impossible to handicap the 2020 Trials unless we know what shoes people wore in this race and what they plann on running in Atlanta. I know one thing, if I was coaching someone in the Trials, there's a zero percent chance I"d let them start without a Vaporfly or some other company's version of it.
Please fill in the chart below if you know the answer and provide proof.
Jacob Riley - 2:10:36 - Vaporfly
Jerrell Mock - 2:10:37 - Vaporfly
Parker Stinson - 2:10:53 - Some sort of Saucony shoe - was it their version of the Vaporfly?
Andre wBumbalough - 2:10:56 - Vaporfly
Matt Mcdonald - 2:11:30 - ??
Scott Smith - 2:11:14 -
Brendan Gregg - 2:11:38
Noah Droddy - 2:11:42 -
Wilkerson Given - 2:11:44
Diego Estrada - 2:11:54 -
Emma Bates -2:25:27 - ??
Stephanie Bruce - 2:27:47 - ??
Lindsay Flanagan - 2:28:08 ??
Laura Thweatt -2:29:06 ??
Here is a photo of the American men's paack:
https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/chicago-american-men-kevin-morris-1570996646.jpg?crop=0.831xw:0.554xh;0.169xw,0.446xh&resize=980:*

Droddy wore the saucony prototypes

5 years ago 10/15/2019 7:35am EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
Here is an email I got from a pro on the list below today.
"Not sure how much I’m allowed to say about the shoes. They are the same prototype racer you’ve seen us racing in for the last year or so. Just some changes to upper. I seem to remember *** *** doing a longer interview about them for this summer. They are set for a commercial release in the not so distant future. "
I appreciate them writing me back but that shows you HOW SCREWED UP OUR SPORT IS.

[/quote]

How screwed up? Any pro runner would have said that about ANY protype shoe over the last 30 years from ANY other company.

With out some legit scientific testing, I think you're blowing this out of proportion a bit too much at this point.

5 years ago 10/15/2019 7:57am EDT

re: Trainers go

Trainers go wrote:
I broke 3 hours in my daily trainers. Suck it Nike!

So did I. Suck it Ni... oh wait I wear Pegasus

5 years ago 10/15/2019 8:13am EDT

re: rojo

In a day and age where eating tainted beef can get you a 4-year ban, we're letting people run with shoes that give them minutes of advantage. It's a joke.

Serious question:

At what point do the shoes become "cheaters". I started running in NB Tracksters and Nike Cortez- more minimalist that today's minimalist shoes.

I was constantly injured until I got motion control shoes.

5 years ago 10/15/2019 8:31am EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
You think it's only a minute? I think it's more than that.

It looks like it is more than that to me also.

I also think this difference will actually start to accelerate.

First reason is there are is obviously a lot of work being done and the shoes

will get refined, but the main reason is that runners will begin changing form

in order to take full advantage, which will then feedback into the design of

the shoe.

The achilles tendon has a half twist to it that allows it to perform as a spring, the

foot has like a million bones which allows it to do the same. If the shoe itself

is a more efficient spring, the runner will need to change form to use the

shoe more and his body less. So the shoe starts being designed for the 'poor'

form, which works better in that shoe, causing the form to get 'worse', etc.

5 years ago 10/15/2019 8:33am EDT

re: rojo

Rojo, shut up you nerd. You ran in shoes and track surfaces that were much improved from the generation prior to yours. This is a natural progression that occurs in all sports. You should be lifting up the American runners that nailed it in Chicago, but your insecurity won’t allow you to.

5 years ago 10/15/2019 8:38am EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
Yeahhhh wrote:
To be fair Rojo, not every runner in that American men’s pack was wearing Vaporfly’s and they were still able to hang. I would wager that the Vaporfly advantage isn’t “minutes” but perhaps about a minute or so. I hope we stop with this shoe nonsense though. It’s messing with the spirit of the sport...
You think it's only a minute? I think it's more than that.
I'm not saying it's just Vaporfly. The only good news is the other shoe companies are finally now coming out with their Vaporfly copycats. Most of them still aren't commercially available.
Here is an email I got from a pro on the list below today.
"Not sure how much I’m allowed to say about the shoes. They are the same prototype racer you’ve seen us racing in for the last year or so. Just some changes to upper. I seem to remember *** *** doing a longer interview about them for this summer. They are set for a commercial release in the not so distant future. "
I appreciate them writing me back but that shows you HOW SCREWED UP OUR SPORT IS.
, I'm putting a mental * next to Rupp's medal in Rio as a result. He finished 59 seconds ahead of 4th. Were his shoes 59 seconds better than Ghirmay Ghebreslassie's
Here is an update on the chart. It appears that 8 of the 10 men below ran in the Vaporflys or a pair of shoes that aren't commercially available yet but are another shoe company's version of the Vaporfly.
Jacob Riley - 2:10:36 - Vaporfly
Jerrell Mock - 2:10:37 - Vaporfly
Parker Stinson - 2:10:53 - Some sort of Saucony shoe - believed to be their version of Vaporfly
Andre Bumbalough - 2:10:56 - Vaporfly
Matt Mcdonald - 2:11:30 - Vaporfly
Scott Smith - 2:11:14 - Carbon X
Brendan Gregg - 2:11:38 - Hyperion Elite
Noah Droddy - 2:11:42 - - Some sort of Saucony shoe - believed to be their version of Vaporfly
Wilkerson Given - 2:11:44 - Vaporfly
Diego Estrada - 2:11:54 - New ASICS?
Emma Bates -2:25:27 - ??New ASICS?
Stephanie Bruce - 2:27:47 - ??
Lindsay Flanagan - 2:28:08 Nike Zoom Fly 3 (not 4%)
Laura Thweatt -2:29:06 ??

[/quote]

I think Stephanie Bruce wore the Hoka Carbon Rocket.

https://i2.wp.com/hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/bruce-stephaniefv-chicago19-1570994206.jpg?ssl=1

5 years ago 10/15/2019 8:42am EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
Yeahhhh wrote:
To be fair Rojo, not every runner in that American men’s pack was wearing Vaporfly’s and they were still able to hang. I would wager that the Vaporfly advantage isn’t “minutes” but perhaps about a minute or so. I hope we stop with this shoe nonsense though. It’s messing with the spirit of the sport...
You think it's only a minute? I think it's more than that.
I'm not saying it's just Vaporfly. The only good news is the other shoe companies are finally now coming out with their Vaporfly copycats. Most of them still aren't commercially available.
Here is an email I got from a pro on the list below today.
"Not sure how much I’m allowed to say about the shoes. They are the same prototype racer you’ve seen us racing in for the last year or so. Just some changes to upper. I seem to remember *** *** doing a longer interview about them for this summer. They are set for a commercial release in the not so distant future. "
I appreciate them writing me back but that shows you HOW SCREWED UP OUR SPORT IS.
, I'm putting a mental * next to Rupp's medal in Rio as a result. He finished 59 seconds ahead of 4th. Were his shoes 59 seconds better than Ghirmay Ghebreslassie's
Here is an update on the chart. It appears that 8 of the 10 men below ran in the Vaporflys or a pair of shoes that aren't commercially available yet but are another shoe company's version of the Vaporfly.
Jacob Riley - 2:10:36 - Vaporfly
Jerrell Mock - 2:10:37 - Vaporfly
Parker Stinson - 2:10:53 - Some sort of Saucony shoe - believed to be their version of Vaporfly
Andre Bumbalough - 2:10:56 - Vaporfly
Matt Mcdonald - 2:11:30 - Vaporfly
Scott Smith - 2:11:14 - Carbon X
Brendan Gregg - 2:11:38 - Hyperion Elite
Noah Droddy - 2:11:42 - - Some sort of Saucony shoe - believed to be their version of Vaporfly
Wilkerson Given - 2:11:44 - Vaporfly
Diego Estrada - 2:11:54 - New ASICS?
Emma Bates -2:25:27 - ??New ASICS?
Stephanie Bruce - 2:27:47 - ??
Lindsay Flanagan - 2:28:08 Nike Zoom Fly 3 (not 4%)
Laura Thweatt -2:29:06 ??

[/quote]

Are you putting that asterisk next to gold and bronze too? All 3 medalists were wearing them.

5 years ago 10/15/2019 8:43am EDT

re: LoneStarXC

LoneStarXC wrote:
I think Stephanie Bruce wore the Hoka Carbon Rocket.
https://i2.wp.com/hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/bruce-stephaniefv-chicago19-1570994206.jpg?ssl=1

Yep, those are Carbon Rockets. I wonder why those over the CX.

5 years ago 10/15/2019 8:46am EDT

re: LoneStarXC

LoneStarXC wrote:
rojo wrote:
You think it's only a minute? I think it's more than that.
I'm not saying it's just Vaporfly. The only good news is the other shoe companies are finally now coming out with their Vaporfly copycats. Most of them still aren't commercially available.
Here is an email I got from a pro on the list below today.
"Not sure how much I’m allowed to say about the shoes. They are the same prototype racer you’ve seen us racing in for the last year or so. Just some changes to upper. I seem to remember *** *** doing a longer interview about them for this summer. They are set for a commercial release in the not so distant future. "
I appreciate them writing me back but that shows you HOW SCREWED UP OUR SPORT IS.
, I'm putting a mental * next to Rupp's medal in Rio as a result. He finished 59 seconds ahead of 4th. Were his shoes 59 seconds better than Ghirmay Ghebreslassie's
Here is an update on the chart. It appears that 8 of the 10 men below ran in the Vaporflys or a pair of shoes that aren't commercially available yet but are another shoe company's version of the Vaporfly.
Jacob Riley - 2:10:36 - Vaporfly
Jerrell Mock - 2:10:37 - Vaporfly
Parker Stinson - 2:10:53 - Some sort of Saucony shoe - believed to be their version of Vaporfly
Andre Bumbalough - 2:10:56 - Vaporfly
Matt Mcdonald - 2:11:30 - Vaporfly
Scott Smith - 2:11:14 - Carbon X
Brendan Gregg - 2:11:38 - Hyperion Elite
Noah Droddy - 2:11:42 - - Some sort of Saucony shoe - believed to be their version of Vaporfly
Wilkerson Given - 2:11:44 - Vaporfly
Diego Estrada - 2:11:54 - New ASICS?
Emma Bates -2:25:27 - ??New ASICS?
Stephanie Bruce - 2:27:47 - ??
Lindsay Flanagan - 2:28:08 Nike Zoom Fly 3 (not 4%)
Laura Thweatt -2:29:06 ??

I think Stephanie Bruce wore the Hoka Carbon Rocket.

https://i2.wp.com/hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/bruce-stephaniefv-chicago19-1570994206.jpg?ssl=1[/quote

]

You’re a page late and Rojo can’t read.

5 years ago 10/15/2019 9:01am EDT

re: Washed Out

Washed Out wrote:
Rojo, shut up you nerd. You ran in shoes and track surfaces that were much improved from the generation prior to yours. This is a natural progression that occurs in all sports. You should be lifting up the American runners that nailed it in Chicago, but your insecurity won’t allow you to.

Rojo just butt hurt these weren't around when he was in the game

5 years ago 10/15/2019 9:02am EDT

re: yup, this

With Greg Meyer running 2:09 at Boston in 1983 I would be interested in hearing opinions on A) his time compared to American men at Chicago 2019 B) That he wore Brooks without carbon plates.

5 years ago 10/15/2019 9:42am EDT

re: Wonder

Can there be some clarification on the Vaporfly...I see a mix of the "orange" Flyknit 4% and the Next% in pictures. Is there much difference between the two or are we lumping them in the same basket as "Vaporfly"?

5 years ago 10/15/2019 9:45am EDT

re: rojo

rojo wrote:
Yeahhhh wrote:
To be fair Rojo, not every runner in that American men’s pack was wearing Vaporfly’s and they were still able to hang. I would wager that the Vaporfly advantage isn’t “minutes” but perhaps about a minute or so. I hope we stop with this shoe nonsense though. It’s messing with the spirit of the sport...
You think it's only a minute? I think it's more than that.
I'm not saying it's just Vaporfly. The only good news is the other shoe companies are finally now coming out with their Vaporfly copycats. Most of them still aren't commercially available.
Here is an email I got from a pro on the list below today.
"Not sure how much I’m allowed to say about the shoes. They are the same prototype racer you’ve seen us racing in for the last year or so. Just some changes to upper. I seem to remember *** *** doing a longer interview about them for this summer. They are set for a commercial release in the not so distant future. "
I appreciate them writing me back but that shows you HOW SCREWED UP OUR SPORT IS.
]

I'm 95% sure you talked to Droddy and the shoe is Saucony's

5 years ago 10/15/2019 11:16am EDT

"Lindsay Flanagan - 2:28:08 Nike Zoom Fly 3 (not 4%)"

Wow, cannot believe Flanagan ran in the VF3. Nike absolutely wasted the VF with the third version: heavy, sloppy fit, no feeling of bounce or firmness...just wrong in every respect. They feel like a plodding shoe. I ran in them twice and sent them back. The VF3 weighs 10 ounces!

BTW, the winner of the 2019 Ironman Championship, Jan Frodeno of Germany, set the all-time record by a couple of minutes, and did the marathon leg in 2:40 (not a record for the marathon leg). He wore the black, unreleased Asics.

5 years ago 10/15/2019 11:25am EDT

re: DC Wonk

Tuned indoor tracks (Harvard, BU, etc.) deliver a proven 2-3% improvement in speed (not abstract oxygen consumption). Should we ban those too?

5 years ago 10/15/2019 11:31am EDT

re: God damn hypocrites

I bet if you look at the last 10 majors and took the top 10 in every one, 7 of 10 were wearing the same shoe. Most likely because they were sponsored by Nike and all the elites of one brand wear, generally speaking, the same shoe.

Not saying the Vaporflys don't offer an advantage. Just saying that because many in the top 10 wore them doesn't sound fishy to me.

Also, most of those guys should be running 2:10-2:11. US men's marathoning continues to lag the world and those are not otherworldly times when you have a woman running 2:14 and the conditions were about as perfect as they could be.

5 years ago 10/15/2019 11:38am EDT

re: rojo

Rojo, check out the Ironman finish from last weekend. The winner was wearing black Asics, and there are pretty good views of the shoe - not sure it's the plate one, but I'd assume so.

5 years ago 10/15/2019 11:46am EDT

re: rojo

According to JMAR it's ~7 mins or more!!!!!!!!!

https://twitter.com/jmarpdx/status/1184101692276523008

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What shoe were the Americans wearing in Chicago?

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