Why are we letting Pete Julian slide?

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

I don’t think Pete and Alberto were buddy buddy behind the scenes and secretly scheming and planning. It’s almost as if it was two separate groups so Alberto could focus on his big guns and Pete probably got advice or some workouts and stuff from Alberto.

Let's ask Pete himself about this:

"My training philosophies shifted dramatically after I left the college system and joined the Nike Oregon Project. I couldn't have asked for a better mentor than Alberto. He has pushed me hard and has challenged me to rethink just about every training concept I brought with me. It's what I needed. But I'm still learning and tweaking things every day, and always will."

And also: "That said, Alberto and I work very closely together and we are there to step in and help no matter the athlete. Every NOP athlete gets the entire staff's full support. We are one team."

But yeah, surely has to be almost two separate groups.

Well he’s not going to be like ‘yeah we’re in the same training group but we don’t associate with each other at all.’ You can tell the past few years Pete has distanced himself and his group from Alberto.

And also, learning a lot about training from Al isn’t the same as going to each other’s houses discussing transfusion techniques or planning out how much androgel to give Donny to not get caught. I think despite any potential doping (which I honestly doing believe there was a marked amount of after reading some of the report), Salazar is a good coach, and Pete learned a lot from him. But he’s also an idiot he pushes the envelope just a tad too far. ??‍♂️

wejo wrote:

Pete was like 20 people behind me at customs in Doha. I remember thinking, "I shouldn't let the fact that Alberto is the guy I fear most in the sport let me from being nice to Pete."

Why do you fear Mr. Salazar?

You guys realize that Pete and Alberto are best friends, right?

Granted, my stint with him was only for a few months while I ran on the Pacers team and I was long gone by the '16 Olympics, but it seemed like he didn't let his personal feelings about Alberto get in the way of what he thought was best for Matthew. He's an extremely supportive guy and I think he knew that, aside from thinking Alberto is an a$$hole, Salazar had a lot to offer Matthew. This is complete speculation so don't quote me on this, but I've always thought that if he were aware of any credible allegations about Alberto crossing the line, that would've been the only time that he'd step in and ask Matthew to leave. People are always quick to call him a jerk because of the stories they hear but, at least in front of our group, he was always a stand up guy that I'd imagine would kill Jr. if he ever found out he was up to no good. That's part of what makes me question the opinion I laid out in my original post and think that MAYBE Alberto really did keep this stuff to only a few athletes and secret to the rest after Magness left? I guess none of us will know though, at least for a while.

This is extremely damaging to anyone who wants to distinguish the Pete from AlSal.

As a matter of principle and coherency, if you have a favorable view of Pete, then you can't have that harsh of a view of AlSal with respect to "coaching methods." If you have a harsh view of AlSal, then by extension, you must be pretty skeptical of Pete given the clear evidence (more clear than any evidence of AlSal violating doping rules) of a close association between Pete and AlSal, both in training methods, friendship, NOP association, and proximity.

I don't think there was a smoking gun in any of this, but some sketchy things were going on. In the end, there did appear to be at least one violation that, by a strict reading of the rules, mandates the 4 year ban of AlSal. However, by a strict reading of the rules, other people -- such as Magness -- must also be dealt with per the rules. Some people want to lump all of the blame on AlSal and give everyone else a pass. No. You're not going to get away with that.

If there is to be a reckoning, AlSal is only going to be one among many casualties.

And you better believe AlSal will happily supply evidence of others' complicity in his shenanigans if ratting out others is offered to reduce his punishment.

Rat Face AlSal wrote:

And you better believe AlSal will happily supply evidence of others' complicity in his shenanigans if ratting out others is offered to reduce his punishment.

I wouldn't call it ratting, it'd call it facilitating an investigation.

Mob bosses denigrate other mobsters as rats if they help law enforcement with their investigation into mob crimes. Helping investigators is generally a good thing (if we agree with the system of rules). Thus, if AlSal knows something relevant to rule violations, it is incumbent upon USADA (and other bodies) to try to get his cooperation. Maybe that means a lighter punishment, maybe that means threats of a harsher punishment...

Here's all you need to know about Pete Julian and whether he's involved:

-He was there for Tara Welling's L-carnitine injection. In fact, he went with her to Houston.

-He was there when Mo Farah got his L-carnitine injection before his marathon debut.

-He previously had been an NOP assistant in 2008.

-In 2017, athletes, like Rowberry, and others began to say they were coached by Pete Julian now. Why did this occur? Because Salazar was charged with his doping violation in 2017. It took 2 years to arbitrate it.

Pete Julian is the escape plan. They are trying to make it seem like there were two groups. There weren't. Julian and Salazar worke dhand in hand. Julian his assistant. Salazar in charge. Salazar is a control freak. NOP was his baby, his program. It's why Schumacher split off. Julian did not.

Don't fall for the PR spin.

"Wait, officer! These aren't my doping violations. I was just carrying them for a friend."

Black man = "prison"

Old white man = "He's a nice guy"

spinning Trump wrote:

Here's all you need to know about Pete Julian and whether he's involved:

-He was there for Tara Welling's L-carnitine injection. In fact, he went with her to Houston.

-He was there when Mo Farah got his L-carnitine injection before his marathon debut.

-He previously had been an NOP assistant in 2008.

-In 2017, athletes, like Rowberry, and others began to say they were coached by Pete Julian now. Why did this occur? Because Salazar was charged with his doping violation in 2017. It took 2 years to arbitrate it.

Pete Julian is the escape plan. They are trying to make it seem like there were two groups. There weren't. Julian and Salazar worke dhand in hand. Julian his assistant. Salazar in charge. Salazar is a control freak. NOP was his baby, his program. It's why Schumacher split off. Julian did not.

Don't fall for the PR spin.

Seems plausible.

However, Schumacher isn't off the hook in light of annoying facts like his Dr. "Thyroid" Brown connection.

As I said, if there is a reckoning afoot, silly little things like "I'm with Julian" aren't going to save you, nor should it. I want to see consistency and fairness; to date, there's been very little of that.

BTC is just as dirty as NOP. Both are influenced by the leadership at Nike which were testing for testosterone and trying to absolutely push the limits to increase the chances of getting medals, putting athletes health last.

Both have access to the same Nike doctors and pharmacies, Schumacher routinely sent his athletes to Dr Brown to obtain meds for thyroids, asthma, vitamin D, calcium and more.

If you want to support honest teams who don't care much about the medical side of running, follow Brooks Beasts, NAZ or Tinman Elite. Yes, they might not perform on the same level as NOP/BTC, but at least they don't care about taking stuff that might somehow improve performance or not even if it wouldn't be a direct breach of doping rules. They just train more and harder to get better, which of course doesn't have the same level of progression as if all athletes get stuffed full with non-needed meds, PED's and vitamin pills but at least they rely on their talent and hard work.

Because cancer

[quote]wejo wrote:

I don't know Pete that well but have always considered him "one of the good guys of the sport."

We both ran the 10k around the same time and then he had his fight with cancer.

So I start out by giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Then I hear from others like Mark Coogan whom I presume are suspicious of Alberto but swear to me that Pete Julian wouldn't cheat. That may not mean anything to you as we're all human and can cross lines but to me it's further reason to believe in him.

Then we can look at the timing. Pete joined the Oregon Project full-time in 2012. None of these allegations came out until just before in USAs 2015. The L-carnitine stuff is alleged to have happened in the leadup to the 2012 Olympic Marathon Trials (before Pete started).

If you're an assistant college coach and the most powerful coach in America comes to you and wants to hire you and assures you there isn't anything wrong (and there haven't been any published reports saying there is), I think most people are going to jump at that opportunity.

And once you have the job, I think most people are going to keep it. You could question Pete for maybe not resigning when some of this stuff came out, but Alberto asserted his innocence and I believe it all predates Pete being there.

Now maybe Pete held a watch for Alberto in the summers from 2008-2011 but I don't think he really joined until 2012. Maybe I'm wrong on the timing but feel to correct it.

***

Pete was like 20 people behind me at customs in Doha. I remember thinking, "I shouldn't let the fact that Alberto is the guy I fear most in the sport let me from being nice to Pete. I've got know reason to think he's doing anything wrong. I should talk to him in Doha." I'm fine if Pete takes over coaching the athletes.

How on earth could Pete know nothing. He never read any of the accusations against Alberto? You're a Mr. Softy for writing this excuse of a post!

Anyone trying to make an argument that anyone associated with the NOP or Alberto "didn't know what was going on" is a fool. And yes they're probably the same people who defended Lance up until his interview with Oprah. There is hardly anyone outside of professional running that didn't know what was going on. I'm a hobby jogger and I heard his reputation wasn't so good back in 2003. Mary Slaney was busted in the late 90s so all of this well Pete started in this year or that year and it was after or before is just a lot of my dog ate my homework. You can't pick and choose who to vilify for going to Alberto after Mary Slaney as "knowing" (Hasay, Cain, Hassan) but then for others oh he's such a "good guy" they could never have known (Pete, Dathan, Donovan.) Inconsistencies are a cornerstone of Let's Run but it's just ridiculous in this case.

Also some of the "arguments" I've heard the Brojos make over the years as to why they feel someone is "clean" or not is just as absurd. Here the guy ran a 10K and was in line at the airport. For Paula it was because one of them paced her in Chicago (if I recall didn't Alberto pace Lance in a marathon....) For some Kenyans it was because they went out and visited them at some training camp and talked to their coach or husband (or both) and they told them they don't dope.

KTHXBAI wrote:

Because cancer

This message board is a complete trash heap. If you are going to write things like this use your REAL NAME and provide us with some health history of your own. Maybe provide a picture of yourself, too. That way, we can put your life on public display and judge you as well. Wouldn't that be fun?

spinning Trump wrote:

Here's all you need to know about Pete Julian and whether he's involved:

-He was there for Tara Welling's L-carnitine injection. In fact, he went with her to Houston.

-He was there when Mo Farah got his L-carnitine injection before his marathon debut.

-He previously had been an NOP assistant in 2008.

-In 2017, athletes, like Rowberry, and others began to say they were coached by Pete Julian now. Why did this occur? Because Salazar was charged with his doping violation in 2017. It took 2 years to arbitrate it.

Pete Julian is the escape plan. They are trying to make it seem like there were two groups. There weren't. Julian and Salazar worke dhand in hand. Julian his assistant. Salazar in charge. Salazar is a control freak. NOP was his baby, his program. It's why Schumacher split off. Julian did not.

Don't fall for the PR spin.

That's enough for me.

Brazier must give back his gold immediately.

KTHXBAI-FU wrote:

KTHXBAI wrote:

Because cancer

This message board is a complete trash heap. If you are going to write things like this use your REAL NAME and provide us with some health history of your own. Maybe provide a picture of yourself, too. That way, we can put your life on public display and judge you as well. Wouldn't that be fun?

Calm down, Wilma. It was clearly a response to the question posed in the subject line. Many more people gave Armstrong a pass because of his cancer story. Julian's personal health is public knowledge because he talked about it to the press. Nobody's wishing cancer on him or saying he deserved it or anything like that.

And yes, this site is trash but you already knew that yet read this board all the same and that's a completely separate issue.

I listened to a capella athletics podcast with Craig Engels from a few months ago. In the middle of the pod Engels flat out says they aren’t breaking the rules but that they are taking stuff that isn’t banned but is in the grey area and within legal limits. Aka microdosing, etc.