It is reasonable.
I think that completing a marathon is much more interesting than a quick 5k. To the layperson, this is a really big deal and will garner much more social currency. No one says "Man, that was a 20-minute 5k meeting", they state "it was a marathon", with good reason.
If you're proud of your change, do something that other people will be proud of as well. If you're putting the work in collect the reward!
OP you seem to have it all down.
- 1lb a week loss (500kcal) is good since if you try for more you send your body into starvation mode
- Slowly increase the amount you run so that your body can handle the pounding structurally, both through improved muscle mass but stronger tendons/ligaments and less body weight as time moves forward.
- Your goals are reasonable, but as another poster said, who really cares if its 1:59 or 2:05, running is a lifestyle change and one that you and everybody is generally better off for.
The real question is with the attitude and knowhow what was holding you back in years past?
-RS
SlowAndHeavy wrote:
Getting back into running when you're fat, out of shape and old is an area where I have a lot of experience. Here are a couple lessons I've learned along way:
To get faster and make big gains you need to: (a) increase your weekly mileage, so that you're running a lot more, on a regular basis; (b) you need to lose weight; (c) you’ll eventually need to start doing hard workouts focused on building speed; and (d) not get injured.
*When you're over 40, heavy, and haven’t run in over 10 years, it's really easy to injure yourself when you’re building up your mileage or trying to increase your speed. You need to build up your muscles and bones to handle the pounding of long miles and hard workouts. This is a slow process.
*You are going to improve a lot, and quickly when you first start running regularly. You’ll feel great and your leg muscles and cardio will be ready to push the pace and mileage before your bones and tendons can handle it. It’s important to keep yourself in check and not push too hard, too fast.
*It will probably take you at least 4 or 5 months before you are ready to run a full 13.1 at any speed, without hurting yourself. Hal Higdon's Novice 1 Half Marathon Plan is a great place to start.
*When you first start out, it’s a bad idea to chase too many goals at once. Trying to dramatically increase your speed while you are simultaneously building up your mileage for the first time is a good way to get injured. There will be a time when your body can handle both, but it’s not during your first year of running.
*Especially when you are just starting out, try to focus on one thing at a time. It’s ok to restrict calories to lose weight, but don’t do it at the same time that you are increasing your mileage. Your body won’t recover if you’re starving it for fuel.
Anyway, I’m starting to repeat myself…
As for whether your time goals are realistic, a lot depend on your physiology. If you were a great athlete once upon a time, cardio workouts have always come easy to you, etc., then a 2-hour half marathon probably won't be a problem.
Personally, I’ve been running for 4 years and still haven’t broken two hours (though I’m getting close). I have, however, shaved 30 minutes off my half marathon time and have run a couple full marathons. But that’s my body – cardio was my weakness when I was a ripped high-schooler. There are plenty of fatter and older guys who smoke me at every race.
Thanks for LOTS of good advice!
I had not read your post before commiting to run a 400m today! haha.. I'll try and not run it at quite 100% so I don't end up with a groin strain or something silly
I was never a great athlete, but I have lost weight doing cardio before (cycling and trekking). I do enjoy long work outs in zone2 and 3 (and even the pain in zone 4)
Right now, I don't really have a choice with increasing activity while dieting, as pretty much all mileage is currently "increasing mileage", but I see your point. cheers!
As mentioned, the bulk of the cardio is so far rowing as to not strain my body too much. I haven't invested in a garmin yet, but I'm conscious of not training too hard. That's fairly easy on the rowing machine.
Other than a rowing machine, I also own a spinning bike and a racer bike.. (Although I don't fit my biking clothes! haha!)
So I THINK I have the neccecary options for enough cardio training without pounding my legs to death under control for now, but we'll see.. There's been minimum amount of running so far, so I am very curious as to how my body (especially my left knee) will handle many miles of running.
The "hard" work outs so far has pretty much been the uphill walking (That round of mine starts with an about 1 mile 350-400 feet hill and the treks with rucksacks starts with with over 1500 feet elevation of climbing)
Have to admit though, just from running my round yesterday I do feel it ever so slightly in my left knee which is probably why I wrote that post in the first place yesterday..
Life Changes wrote:
Thanks for feedback all.
Do you have access to weights? I’ve been injury prone, which is one of the reasons I would steer someone like yourself towards a 5K rather than a HM. The heavier I’ve gotten the more I find having a basic level of strength makes a difference. For me that means being able to squat ~1.5x my body weight and consistently doing seated calf raises. Lifting twice a week for just 30 minutes can help significantly.
I don’t think you took offense to suggesting to shoot for some arbitrary time like 20:00 for 5K rather than an equally arbitrary time for a HM, but apologies if it came across poorly.
I would assume your tendons and bones will find this transition quite shocking. Whatever you can do to make your tendons more elastic and bones stronger will help your cause.
RunnerSam wrote:
OP you seem to have it all down.
- 1lb a week loss (500kcal) is good since if you try for more you send your body into starvation mode
- Slowly increase the amount you run so that your body can handle the pounding structurally, both through improved muscle mass but stronger tendons/ligaments and less body weight as time moves forward.
- Your goals are reasonable, but as another poster said, who really cares if its 1:59 or 2:05, running is a lifestyle change and one that you and everybody is generally better off for.
The real question is with the attitude and knowhow what was holding you back in years past?
-RS
Haha.. A very good question!
The uncomplicated answer is that I for way too long in my life have been cynical about life and a bit self destructive as a consequence.
After I passed 35, I've gradually woken up from that haze to the point where I've realized no matter your worldview, the only rational thing is to do good and since then I've done significant charity work and other meaningful endeavours, but prioritizing my own health for sustained amount of time, until now...
Life Changes - You have the right idea.
When I talk about increasing mileage, I'm specifically talking about increasing the number of miles you run a week - typically as part of a training plan that includes a gradually increasing weekly long run.
Increasing your activity level in other forms of cardio is probably fine. Hiking and rowing are both low-impact. Running isn't. You have to slowly toughen up your body to handle a lot of it.
During my first 8 months of running I developed shin splints, Plantar Fasciitis (a painful tendonitis on the bottoms of the feet), a stress reaction in a bone on top of my foot (i.e., the precursor to a stress fracture), and mild runner's knee. None of these were debilitating, but they were annoying setbacks that could have become more serious. By the end of my first 10 months, I needed to take months off just to let my body recover. And for a fat middle age man who's new to running long, it's not an uncommon experience.
But I learned a lot. And I've made smarter choices ever since. I haven't been injured in years (beyond normal aches and pains), even though I run a lot more miles.
I think losing weight/weight control and dieting varies a lot from person to person. I've lost a lot more weight through diet than I have through exercise. And when you are overweight, losing weight is enough to make you a lot faster, just on its own. But it's hard to get stronger and starve your body at the same time. So, I don't diet when I'm in the middle of a training block. Pushing my body harder and further each week during a training block, doesn't work if I'm not fueling adequately. So I tend to diet for weight loss in the "off season," over the winter.
But you'll figure out what works for you. Getting into shape later in life feels amazing. And my life has definitely improved since I integrated fitness into it. Congrats on your strong start down this road! That's the hardest part.
Concentric Hero - Eccentric Zero wrote:
Same here wrote:
+1. 20:00 5k is hauling. That’s probably not happening.
25:00 5k is compatible with 1:59:59 half marathon. At least it was for me, within 1 year of beginning training, losing 30 lbs but not quite quitting smoking. Another year later, I ran 1:48 HM and 4:06 marathon. Opening 5k for my HM was about 24:00. I could probably have run 22 low 5k if I tried.
Hey anything seems possible at midnight.
My point was he should focus on running faster, not further. Without knowing his past abilities it's hard to guess what 5k time is most appropriate. Maybe 20:00, maybe 24:00.
OP: how fast can you currently run 400 meters in without hurting yourself?
Haha.. The answer to that is no slower than 108 secs...
I jogged over to the track. (about 6-7 mins warm up)
First attempt I decided on jogging and increasing as I went along, fairly tired in the end at.. 111 secs...
So walked/jogged slowly a round to get my HR down, new attempt:
Much faster.. 22 sec after 100, 46 secs after 200, aborted after about 260-270 (No way I could run more than another 20-30 meters at that point)
So walked/jogged little over a round for a third attempt:
The most evenly paced and with blood taste in my mouth in the end clocking in at 108 secs...
I'm sure my HR was a bit high when I started, but even starting warm and but completely fresh I don't think I have a sub 100 in me.. Sub 105 should be doable..
It sort of fits in relation to how fast I do my 3,4 mile round and the mountain climb compared to elite males..
Dang.. I'd really hoped I wouldn't be slower than 100 secs, but I was...
Concentric Hero - Eccentric Zero wrote:
Life Changes wrote:
Thanks for feedback all.
Do you have access to weights? I’ve been injury prone, which is one of the reasons I would steer someone like yourself towards a 5K rather than a HM. The heavier I’ve gotten the more I find having a basic level of strength makes a difference. For me that means being able to squat ~1.5x my body weight and consistently doing seated calf raises. Lifting twice a week for just 30 minutes can help significantly.
I don’t think you took offense to suggesting to shoot for some arbitrary time like 20:00 for 5K rather than an equally arbitrary time for a HM, but apologies if it came across poorly.
I would assume your tendons and bones will find this transition quite shocking. Whatever you can do to make your tendons more elastic and bones stronger will help your cause.
Yes, I have some weights as well, (ironic that I have a fairly well equipped training room, I know) but less than 200 lbs of weight..
I have and plan on doing some strength training (at least once a week), mostly to burn some more calories and hopefully not be too flappy as I shed all my excess fat, but the plan is to do mostly body weight training (more than enough body weight to go arond for now! :P)
The current situation is that I'm not even close to be able to do a proper pull up, can do maybe 10-12 push ups, and I'm able to do a set of 5 x 25 without too much hazzle though.. Haha.. as the subject says, I'm really untrained.
I don't mind being tired and short of breath, but I really hate the feeling the day after strength training. Just too painful and can hardly move. Been that way my whole life.. I
No offence taken on the 5k.. I've already flirted with the thought of entering the yearly race in my 3,4 mile lap nest summer. With my current shape I would have finished second to last of all people (about 70) that took part this year.
Luckily I'd have beaten the only entrant in the women 65+ class with about 5 mins.. :)
Down the line doing a decent 5k might become a goal, but for now I need to shed some weight, gain some aerobic capacity and get more of a grasp of the state of my lungs before considering aiming that high...
I am younger (34) and was a bit lighter and shorter 240-245 and 6’2” in the early part of June 2019. I was also a pretty heavy drinker, had high cholesterol and could barely cover a mile.
This morning I weighed 185 and ran a 12 miler at a reasonable clip. I still have a long way to go but fast improvements are possible if you are diligent.
Here is my advice:
1 - Forget the 1 lb a week BS. Focus on your diet. Breakfast = coffee, granola and fruit. Lunch = small sandwich and some nuts. Dinner = Rotating assortment of lean meats and veggies. This is a routine, find something you can live with and don’t deviate from it.
2 - No booze. It is empty calories, will entice you to make bad diet choices, will make you sleep worse and will erode motivation. Some people can manage this... you don’t have that luxury given where you are starting.
3 - Buy an elliptical and make it your best friend for a month. Use it for 1+ houra day 4-5 days a week and go out and run the other days. Slowly cut down elliptical days and increase running days. Run by feel, don’t get too attached to pace for now but do set distance goals. Exercise in the morning, early. The longer the day goes on the less likely you are to do it.
4 - Buy a foam roller and some ice packs. Use them religiously. You will hurt until you get lighter but it does get better.
5 - Get your sleep. 8 hours every night.
6 - Buy a scale and weigh yourself many times a day. Focus on your weight in the morning but weigh yourself after meals and after runs when possible as well. Get a feel for how different thing impact your weight. It makes your actions real.
I know the above sounds like not a lot of fun but it has made me a happier and better person. I hope for the long run.
Concentric Hero - Eccentric Zero wrote:
You're on the right path challenging both yourself and your friend, but I'm not a huge fan of your goal being a 2 hour HM. Aim a lot higher. Challenge yourself to do a 5K. Not to finish it, but to actually RUN it. ....
You want greater quality of life with better fitness, right? 20:00 5K fitness is far far superior to a 2:00:00 HM.
THIS....
Sub 20 might be aiming a bit high at first but shooting to run fast before you run far is much more productive for long term running gains.
Once you can run, you are better off mixing up short hard runs with cross training days both for fitness and injury prevention.