Who loves the French?

Food for thought:

You are engaged in little wars everyday. It may be to win a race, run the fastest interval at practice, get someone else's girlfriend, be noticed by your boss so that you get the promotion, help your company defeat its business rivals, keep a nicer garden than your neighbors, drive a nicer car than your cousin, be your parent's favorite offspring, etc. Competition and the need to be superior in some way is a very basic human nature. Politics and power just take that need to the extreme.

Why is this relevant? Because "perfect peace" is simply not attainable. Unless we all suddenly become enthralled with Buddhist philosophy and rid ourselves of selfishness, shallowness, material need, and ego, there will always be people or groups that will seek to subjagate, rule, or exploit the masses. Humans have acted in this manner since they first walked upright. Most animal species have a pecking order based on strength and size. (And they couldn't give a rat's ass about money or the price of oil) The question begs asking: Realistically, is peace truly possible in a "hands off" world? Thinking locally, would your town be free of criminals and deviants if the police suddenly closed shop?

I also challenge those who prefer the U.N. sanctions to ponder this: Which is preferable - letting the Iraqi population slowly starve to death while Saddam funnels "oil for food" funds into weapons and gaudy presidential palaces? Or, launching a decisive military campaign to remove Saddam and his cronies so that the average Iraqi has a chance to live a life free of fear, oppression, and hunger?

The loss of innocent lives is very tragic and is not taken lightly by our military planners but, we cannot allow a small number of civilian casualties stand in the way of freedom for millions of other innocents.

I am not trying to start an argument rather, just asking the anti-war / anti-U.S. side to thoughfully examine the alternatives and move beyond "No Blood for Oil!" and "We Hate the USA!" hype.

Flagpole Willy, someone had to say it. Thanks. Ditto to Portland Runner.

I too agree with Flag and Portland.

This brewing anti-French hatred reminds me of Hitler's Jew-baiting in the early 30s. Don't buy French products, etc. I'm just waiting for Kristallnacht when dumb rednecks will start vandalizing French-owned stores with the government's silent consent. Idiots like people you quoted and several fellas on this thread are simply inciting ethnic hatred. It's this vulgar arrogance that damages whatever good reputation this country has left abroad. But don't be surprised when one of those sucks goes let's say to Europe and has to pretend to be Canadian to avoid being deservedly kicked in his stupid head in the street.

jersey guy i have half a mind to "freedom" kiss you, i share your same perspective. i wonder how long befor french is listed in the axis of evil?? so they wont fight with us, each nation has to make that call themselves. the american people do not all want war, so y should any of the french? because the french have elected to not involve themselves in this war, to not spend the disgusting amount of money on it america has,to not make enemies for themselves that they dont need, we should shun them?? the right to protest is upheld in america, but should any non american protest the war, we should phase them out of our lives slowly, leaving just enough time to make some witty yet narrow minded comments?

Hey, jersey guy, you are a dumb ass. Comparing french baiting to hitler slaughtering millions of jews.

You are really an anti-semite piece of shit. Fuck off, you racist piece of trash.

Hey I resent that, calling me a redneck!

Great posts by the way David, Portland, and Flagpole. Not only a tough stance, but some intellectual thought as well.

[quote]Flagpole Willy wrote:

1) Saddam killing anyone who shows any opposition to him

2) Saddam using chemical weapons on his own people (ok, the Kurds, but still)

3) Saddam trying to take over another country by force - with another country in his sights (Saudi Arabia).

4) Saddam blowing up oil wells in Kuwait, not only destroying a lot of the Kuwaiti natural resources but causing serious environmental damage at the same time.

5) Saddam losing a war that he started and then not abiding by the rules imposed upon him by the International Community.

6) Saddam, whose government supports Hamas in their suicide bombing efforts.

7) The further death and destruction that Saddam will cause if he is not removed from power.

quote]

hilarious Willy. If these items were the criteria for starting a war, our troups would be in 5/6 of the world's countries.

How many countries do you think "abide" by the U.N. rules set forth? How many rulers kill their own people (Congo, China, Uganda, Ivory Coast, Russia - why aren't we there?hhhhmmmmmmmm

as for number 7, shake a hornet's nest and see what happens.

We have to start somewhere......got 8 down years to catch up though.

jersey_guy, send me a postcard when 6 million American-French people are killed by Americans. That's pretty sad to equate the holocaust to many Americans digust with the French.

Speaking of WWII, it's interesting to see that the world is listening to the French when it was the French that helped drop ball Germany. I certainly don't want to rely on the French or their policies to keep me safe.

It is truly sad to hear many otherwise intelligent people prattle on about why we should hate the French. Even Flagpole Willie's points about Hussein are all old news. Why should the rest of the world think that we should go in right now on a terribly tight time line when the Iraqi regime has been running in place for the past 8 years growing poorer and poorer. With UN protection the Kurds have universities, ATM's, internet and plenty of technology in their country. Saddam is a blight on his people and has been killing the opposition for 30 years. But we supported him when it was in our self interest and opposed him when it wasn't.

Any relationship between Bin Laden and Hussein is ludicrous. That is like saying Clinton and Falwell are allied because they are both Baptists. In fact Bin Laden was kicked out of Saudi Arabia because he wanted to take his band of Afghan veterans and kick Saddam out of Kuwait himself so that the US wouldn't be able to do it.

I agree with Flag and Portland but I don't see why we should HATE the French. I may disagree with France but I will be in Paris in August. (It may even be safer than being in the US.)

I'm suggesting to hate the French. I'm suggesting that they are not best ones to give us advice. In addition their actions over the past 20 some years makes me skeptical that they are an ally.

lets see...the original french/german UN option was to indict Saddam on war crimes charges, send in UN troops to remove him. But Bushie and Rummy would have none of that and promised a veto.

then all the 'proof' of wmd turns out to be a load of bs..

no link between iraq and al-quaida

also = remember the 80's and the billions in US tax $$ that went to the mujahideen (inclusive bin-laden and muhamed omar)so they could battle the soviets? it was the french who warned us against getting in bed with the mujahideen back then and they turned out to be very right.

if reagan had not funneled billions to the mujahideen the wtc would still be standing tall

Portland Runner wrote:

What amazes me is that the French continue to back themselves into a corner. Say what you will about Dubya's diplomatic skills but, at least he knows how to leave himself an out to appear somewhat "flexible".

Unless Chirac does a complete turn or chooses to abstain from a U.N. vote, expect ungodly tarriffs on French wine, food, and textiles. Also, look for U.S. airlines to cancel aircraft orders with Airbus Industries and buy Boeing instead. The French will be punished and for quite a long time. Stock up on brie now!

Seems to me, and to most others, that Jr.'s the one who's gotten himself into a pickle. He's going to have to come up with something pretty good to justify sending 250,000 troops and all their equipment to the Gulf. War is his only way out now. He can't just back out and say that it was all to put pressure on Hussein. It's been far too expensive for that.

And imposing retaliatory tarrifs would simply start a trade war and make the U.S. look even worse than it already does to the rest of the world. When some Republican ferret suggested in a recent Congressional hearing that maybe we ought to withdraw our financial support for France in its dealings with Cote d'Ivoire, even Colin Powell took pains to make it clear that retribution in unrelated areas isn't something we should be considering.

That kind of thinking us understandable, though, when you see how mercantilistic our own version of democracy is. Our politicians aren't just allowed to decide policy according to the wishes of their individual constituents or their own conscience. Hell no. Democracy is something you buy, and if that doesn't work, you bend it to your will by coercion. That's why we have lobbyists, PACS, special interest groups, private campaign contributions, and other forms of corruption are so important to our brand of democracy. Corrupting democracy is one of our biggest and most lucrative industries, employing tens of thousands of people who would otherwise have no marketable skills. When the Turkish Parliament voted against cooperating with the U.S. last week, we already had ships practically in their ports. Why? Because the Republican Guard in the Pentagon and White House figured the fix was in. They assumed $6 billion in aid and undisclosed other promises would be enough to buy the Turks off. So it was refreshing for this American to see a democratic government work as it should. I wish ours worked so well.

All the talk about boycotts rings hollow too, when you consider the soft spots in the American character. Notice that the congressional cafeteria didn't stop serving french fries -- they just called them something else ("Freedom fries"). Ha.

Viva la raison.

Please more French jokes

Ok Flagpole, tell me this...

Iran sits just across the border from Iraq, it has recently been exposed as having a very advanced Nuclear Weapons system, far more advanced than we thought, and its doing this illegally, they have a fundamentalist govt. with one of the worst human rights abuse records in the world (maybe not as bad as Iarael though), they openly fund terrorism and train terrorists in military academies, people there are persecuted (and disappear) becasue of their religious and political beliefs...

OK now why are we not hearing about this on the news, why has Iraq been singled out as being so much worse? Is it becasue Bush has a personal score to settle? Or is it because Iraq is a very much easier target so that Bush can give the american people their pound of (unrelated) flesh for 9/11? Lets not forget we have bombed Iraq virtually every day for the last 12 years, yep wev'e been softening them up, weakening their defences, starving their children and killing the sick and weak for over a decade, bombing women and children in their homes. Strange isn't it how we never see any of those TV pictures of bombed houses and schools? but its happening all of the time, we have been attacking Saddam for 12 years. its been the ideal testing site for US air power, after all wheer else would tehy get the opportunity to drop bombs and try out new missile systems against real life targets without reply?

Fact is, this war has been under way for 12 years, and Bush knows he has failed in terms of cornering Al Qeda, he needs a head on a plate and unfortunately for saddam Bush has picked his head. It doesn't matter what is actually happening, it could easily have ben North Korea, Zimbabwe, Somalia, Syria, Palestine, it just so happnes that Saddam offers the easiest opportunity for a quick fix to Bush's dilemma.

I meant to say that I'm NOT suggesting to hate the French.

So take out Israel. That's your suggestion. The only country in that region that is a true ally. The only country that has democracy and capitalism. And more importantly the only country not dancing in the streets on 9/11. Boy you have a real problem determining who our friends are and are not!