Montesquieu wrote:
Great form--so light on his feet.
His greatest achievement: he broke the 10,000 AR twice in four days, and seven days later won the Olympic marathon.
Many do not know that 1972, there was a round of heats for 10000m. The entire world except South Africa were at 1972 Olympics. I do not think the entire world was at the Olympics again until 1992. I am nearly as impressed by Shorter's 5th place, 10000m final, 1972 Olympics as I am for his Marathon medals.
Why don't you ask Daniels?
Shorter had an insanely high lactate threshold. His V02 was mediocre but his LT was through the roof.
From a friend who spoke to him a few years ago, Frank said, "I could run 5 minute pace all day"
This is pretty typical of a person who leans towards the slow twitch side of the spectrum. The higher than normal ratio of slow twitch muscles fibers allowed him to utilize lactate and gobble it up as fast as he could generate it. This falls inline with his high-aerobic based training.
Old School Frank wrote:
He was so good because he didn't have the distractions and BS that people have today. There were no heart rate monitors, energy gels, energy bars, dry fit, waffle soled shoes, Strava, Garmin, moisture wicking materials, Gore-Tex, etc. The list goes on and on. He just ran how he felt and put in the work.
Some guys that use that stuff are way faster than Shorter.
consider this wrote:
Old School Frank wrote:
He was so good because he didn't have the distractions and BS that people have today. There were no heart rate monitors, energy gels, energy bars, dry fit, waffle soled shoes, Strava, Garmin, moisture wicking materials, Gore-Tex, etc. The list goes on and on. He just ran how he felt and put in the work.
Some guys that use that stuff are way faster than Shorter.
Point out the Americans running faster than Shorter was in 73-76?
There's a big similarity between Frank Shorter and Jakob - it's called the longview. Instead of wasting all your time on this board, for example, or trying to figure out if this or that might work for you, they just put in the work for years, and had/have the results to prove it.
Hadd-like wrote:
Why don't you ask Daniels?
Shorter had an insanely high lactate threshold. His V02 was mediocre but his LT was through the roof.
From a friend who spoke to him a few years ago, Frank said, "I could run 5 minute pace all day"
This is pretty typical of a person who leans towards the slow twitch side of the spectrum. The higher than normal ratio of slow twitch muscles fibers allowed him to utilize lactate and gobble it up as fast as he could generate it. This falls inline with his high-aerobic based training.
Maybe it is best not to lean too far toward slow twitch for 10000m to Marathon athletes. Most would rather have Shorter's career than Bill Rodgers' career. Shorter at his best could have kicked six different kinds of dog sh&t out of Bill Rodgers in every event 15K and shorter. I say, "Could have" because Rodgers knew better than to race Shorter on the track.
Old School Frank wrote:
He was so good because he didn't have the distractions and BS that people have today. There were no heart rate monitors, energy gels, energy bars, dry fit, waffle soled shoes, Strava, Garmin, moisture wicking materials, Gore-Tex, etc. The list goes on and on. He just ran how he felt and put in the work.
Hate to break the tough in the good old days nostalgia but only 20 minute 5k hobby joggers care about that stuff today.
Someone like Scott Fauble is running what he is because of hard and smart training like Shorter.
From what I remember in his book, he attributed his success to his exceptional ability to recover from workouts and races, taking his easy days easy/hard days hard, incorporating fast intervals into his marathon training, and his consistent high mileage.
“From 1970 to 1980, my training log averages 17 miles a day, seven days a week, 52 weeks in every golden year.”
There’s another quote somewhere in My Marathon about how his marathon training was the same as his 5k/10k training, but it’s beyond me to find it. Hope this helped!
Positive Contribution wrote:
Old School Frank wrote:
He was so good because he didn't have the distractions and BS that people have today. There were no heart rate monitors, energy gels, energy bars, dry fit, waffle soled shoes, Strava, Garmin, moisture wicking materials, Gore-Tex, etc. The list goes on and on. He just ran how he felt and put in the work.
Hate to break the tough in the good old days nostalgia but only 20 minute 5k hobby joggers care about that stuff today.
Someone like Scott Fauble is running what he is because of hard and smart training like Shorter.
Shorter didn't have the shoes or any of the technology that has advanced Marathoning since the 70s. He didn't drink Gatorade or any of the other sports drinks. He drank flat coke for his marathons. The shoes, nothing like today. I would guarantee it that he would go about 2:06-2:07 on a Berlin Course, with pace setters, sport drinks and better shoes. Also, he was a lot closer to the world record than Fauble is today.
Here's your answer...
"We ran twice a day, sometimes three times. Twenty miles a day, sometimes more. There were a couple of 170-mile weeks... All we did was run - run, eat, and sleep." - Frank Shorter
shorter actually had 2 golds at the OG,, in 76 the east german was DOPED TO THE GILLS
i find the talk about marathon training being so hard, so time consuming etc. etc.
you're talking an average of 2 hours running per day.
again in on sentence the training is 2/3 hour twice per week at race pace, and two hours per day on the others.
which is to adapt energy reserves for 2 hours - a one off race -, and the work at pace does not need to be more than 10k., like mile repeats, a couple of 5 k's and such.
you could do a schedule where you start running at 9 am. run an hour, do some stretches, rest, juice up, then do some light cross traning, then do strides for 1/2 hour, rest an hour completel, then run home in an hour, you're done by 2pm or 3pm.
what's so hard about that?
HE wanted it bad, and went after it. He trained hard and was a fearless racer, knew how to sniff out the win.
Once read an article about one of Shorter's victories at Fukuoka. Execs from Onitsuka (Tigers) followed him around and fell over themselves catering to Frank, presenting him with custom made shoes. Maybe it was in Sports Illustrated.
Yeah I'm a nerd, in high school in the 70s I haunted the library and consumed their archives, magazine room, microfiche (I know, what is that), any and all resources to ferret out every last crumb of running and distance running lore and history I could get my hands on.
It was really fun, but honestly I shoulda used all that time to add a second run per day!
He was really smart, then and now. I've met few people as intelligent, in or out of sports.
Look at photos of Munich in 1972. The guy was extraordinarily lean, leaner than any other American, Aussie or European runner of that era. The Ethiopians may have been as lean.
Read the assignment wrote:
From what I remember in his book, he attributed his success to his exceptional ability to recover from workouts and races, taking his easy days easy/hard days hard, incorporating fast intervals into his marathon training, and his consistent high mileage.
“From 1970 to 1980, my training log averages 17 miles a day, seven days a week, 52 weeks in every golden year.”
There’s another quote somewhere in My Marathon about how his marathon training was the same as his 5k/10k training, but it’s beyond me to find it. Hope this helped!
This is perfectly to my point. Most fast twitch guys tear their muscles apart and can't recover nearly as well as our ST counterparts. And Frank admits he was incorporating speed work into his high mileage. This is the perfect ingredient for the ST runner to find success at all distances. Frank wasn't a pure ST guy, but he figured out his physiology and maxed it out.
He also didn’t have many East Africans to contend with
Mamo Wolde was third in the '72 Olympics. Pretty sure he was East African.
Not Only Would wrote:
He was really smart, then and now. I've met few people as intelligent, in or out of sports.
Look at photos of Munich in 1972. The guy was extraordinarily lean, leaner than any other American, Aussie or European runner of that era. The Ethiopians may have been as lean.
Leaner than Viren?
"Good looks and a secret recipe." ;)
Seriously, he was one of the first American post-collegiates to train like a professional. Helping him in this process was Jack Batcheler, who trained as much but didn't have the genetics to be the best. Bill Rodgers followed suit, and was Frank's main adversary as a result. His famous quote was that no one with a full-time job would be able to beat him.
PED. Performance Enhancing Dough. He was taking money that was unavailable to his competitors. Accepting money back then was a lifetime ban.
Money talks wrote:
PED. Performance Enhancing Dough. He was taking money that was unavailable to his competitors. Accepting money back then was a lifetime ban.
Before peak Frank Shorter, first responders at road races used to donate their time. City cops, sheriff deputies, highway patrolmen, EMS, firemen, they all donated their time. Once word leaked out, Frank Shorter needed a bag of cash to race, all previously mentioned public servants demanded time and a half or double pay for large road races.