Long-term coffee use is not linked to health hazard, and it may even have some positive health effects.
As a side note, as a college student going to a late night party I took 3 big cups of strong coffee against fatigue.
After 20 minutes I started shaking and I definitely had trouble falling asleep several hours later.
Bad Wigins wrote:
It was never banned outright, only above a certain threshold, about the level that would result from a 200mg dose. I never once heard of that being enforced; using caffeine has never violated the "spirit" of any sport in history.
It is not an effective PED. You can pile up all the studies you want showing some group on caffeine beats another group, but at the end of the day all that means is some of the people in the other group weren't alert. It may make you more likely to be alert, but it can't make you more alert than you could be without it, let alone go physically beyond what you could otherwise do.
Compare this to amphetamines - also called substituted adrenaline. Adrenaline can make your body do things it can't do otherwise, for a short while. Amphetamines are long-lasting adrenaline.
Your dismissal of the science is pretty disturbing. Caffeine affects people differently. Some people see a decrease in performance. I would say it is an effective PED for some people. Caffeine seems to work less in terms of being alert than it reduces the perception of effort.
kmaclam wrote:
It most positively is a performance enhancer and 99.9% of studies (and there have been a lot of them) confirm. Just a matter of time before it's more closely regulated.
It was before 2000 and has been "legal" for the past 19. I see little interest in re-regulating it.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Best part of waking up wrote:
sixteen "well-trained and familiarised male cyclists (Mean ± s: Age = 32.6 ± 8.3 years;
Body mass = 78.5 ± 6.0 kg; Height = 180.9 ± 5.5 cm VO2(peak) = 60.4 ± 4.1 ml x kg(-1) x min(-1)) completed three experimental trials, following training and dietary standardisation. Participants ingested either a placebo, or 3 or 6 mg x kg(-1) body mass of caffeine 90 min prior to completing a set amount of work equivalent to 75% of peak sustainable power output for 60 min. Exercise performance was significantly (P < 0.05) improved with both caffeine treatments as compared to placebo (4.2% with 3 mg x kg(-1) body mass and 2.9% with 6 mg x kg(-1) body mass). The difference between the two caffeine doses was not statistically significant (P = 0.24). Caffeine ingestion at either dose resulted in significantly higher heart rate values than the placebo conditions (P < 0.05), but no statistically significant treatment effects in ratings of perceived exertion (RPE) were observed (P = 0.39). A caffeine dose of 3 mg x kg(-1) body mass appears to improve cycling performance in well-trained and familiarised athletes. Doubling the dose to 6 mg x kg(-1) body mass does not confer any additional improvements in performance.
I fixed your mis-bolded text. This is a perfect example of the way they pile up these stupid studies that have nothing to do with competitive athletes. Cyclists an average nearly 33 years old and weight over 170 pounds? In a 60 minute workout, not a competition? Get outta here.
I'll tell you what the caffeine did for these hobby cyclists: some of them were alert and metabolically prepared for this ride, and some were not. One can't expect every participant in an anonymized trial with no winners or prizes to be equally motivated. Many factors influence metabolic state, including time of day and sleep patterns. Caffeine may rev up metabolism, but like I already explained, it can't push it beyond any level you'd reach naturally without it. In other words, it wakes you up in the morning. People don't drink it when they're already alert. If they do, they merely get jittery, eventually develop tolerance and the max effect remains that simple wake-up.
Go find me a 4 flat miler who never takes caffeine, and let's bet 100 bucks over/under on that 2.9% on 200mg caffeine. 4 flat to 3:53? Not gonna happen; competing athletes aren't asleep on the starting line. Okay, so maybe you're not claiming it would happen, but in that case go find another study, cause this one does. It's bunk, except for the other word I bolded for you where they admit it's inconclusive.
PED's make you do things you couldn't do without them. Caffeine has no such effect.
Caffeine does not rev up the metabolism during exercise. It does not increase fat oxidation during exercise. It has been shown to reduce the perception of effort during a work and that perception looks like a big driver in performance.
You choosing to ignore the science is disturbing. So if I can run sub 3 marathon on caffeine but not on caffeine, you just simply think I was not "alert" enough?
There is also an expectation effect (what was once called placebo effect) with caffeine as well, but even when that effect is controlled for there is enough evidence to show it has potential as a performance booster.
If you only want studies done on Olympic caliber athletes, you will never be satisfied since that just does not happen for some pretty obvious reasons. Even if they were available, I suspect you would choose to ignore them anyway.
I heard Nick Symmonds speak about his run gum. He made some claim about how it isn't like drinking a cup of coffee because "it hits you so hard". He was using it for its adrenaline releasing properties. There are likely studies more along those lines.
pointer outer wrote:
I heard Nick Symmonds speak about his run gum. He made some claim about how it isn't like drinking a cup of coffee because "it hits you so hard". He was using it for its adrenaline releasing properties. There are likely studies more along those lines.
Which is the exact point, he's using it as a PED and justifying it in his head because it's not banned. He discounts the fact that it was banned at these levels and it's still being monitored by WADA for abuse. WADA is very clear on this in article 4.5
People give Salazar a hard time because he's perceived as pushing the boundaries between legal and not legal. This is no different. Caffeine is a drug whether you think of it that way or not. WADA is monitoring it's use and Symmonds is openly flaunting the fact that he uses it as a PED. Don't be surprised when WADA adds it back to the list above certain levels because idiots like Symmonds have no brain at all. I hope it happens too, I'd love to see that self-righteous prick and go out of business.
This discussion is ridiculous. It's as 800 dude says, completely cultural, which is why criterion 3 doesn't get ding'd. The "spirit" of the sport is a completely cultural concept about what should and shouldn't be allowed in competition. And most of the planet has agreed that it loves caffeine, that it isn't a big deal, and consumes it before most involved (competitive or otherwise) activities. If that changes it changes, but as long as people everywhere keep drinking coffee, tea, soda, etc. in abundance it's not really worth arguing about. Might as well ban intra-race calorie consumption.
Hexley9 wrote:
This discussion is ridiculous. It's as 800 dude says, completely cultural, which is why criterion 3 doesn't get ding'd. The "spirit" of the sport is a completely cultural concept about what should and shouldn't be allowed in competition. And most of the planet has agreed that it loves caffeine, that it isn't a big deal, and consumes it before most involved (competitive or otherwise) activities. If that changes it changes, but as long as people everywhere keep drinking coffee, tea, soda, etc. in abundance it's not really worth arguing about. Might as well ban intra-race calorie consumption.
Ok Nick, if you say so. Make sure to dig up all the posts about you and comment.
BTW, it's not ridiculous when put in the proper context. Nick is a guy that calls out dopers, specifically one that got popped for taking Adderall, something he had used as a kid and wasn't using for performance enhancement. Ironically, caffeine was also banned at the time when this athlete was sanctioned for the Adderall. Symmonds, who wants everyone to believe he is clean (he very badly wants this) openly flaunts his use of caffeine as a PED even though it's part of the WADA monitoring program. Just because caffeine is not banned, does not mean it's OK to misuse it.
I also believe that selling caffeine, specifically marketed as a legal PED is a TERRIBLE MESSAGE to young athletes. And, there is no doubt as to how he's marketing it based on his youtube video. Pushing something with all the benefits of a PED without the social stigma doesn't mean you are any better than the EPO user and certainly no better than the person busted for Adderall.
Now go away Nick and pretend kiss your fake fiancé on the cheek some more.
I Wada Know wrote:
Caffeine in high doses was a banned drug, in competition until 2004. It still remains part of the WADA monitoring program for misuse.
The World Anti-Doping Code (Article 4.5) states:
WADA, in consultation with Signatories and governments, shall establish a monitoring program regarding substances which are not on the Prohibited List, but which WADA wishes to monitor in order to detect patterns of misuse in sport.
Nick Symmonds just put out a video bragging that he legally used caffeine everyday his entire pro career and now he sells and markets his caffeine gum, solely for the purpose of performance enhancement. He has said that he sells it in gum form for the quickest absorption and thus the fastest effect. This would clearly be considered "misuse" by WADA, per their monitoring program.
For a substance to be considered banned, it must meet 2 of the 3 criteria:
It has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance;
It represents an actual or potential health risk to the Athlete;
It violates the spirit of sport (this definition is outlined in the Code).
Caffeine was removed from the banned list because WADA did not want to unfairly sanction someone who drank a Coke or a cup of coffee. It remains part of the monitoring program to ascertain whether it is used by athletes to enhance their athletic performances.
Nick Symmonds states:
This was a hard confession to make, but it feels good to finally be honest with my fans. Yes I trained hard, but I also had a very powerful chemical helping me...
I get it, yes, I know he was being facetious and only trying to hype his product, something he does well, but it also proves his purpose and motivation for caffeine. The purpose is 100% for in competition athletic performance enhancement and this is clearly "misuse" per WADA and it violates the spirit of the sport.
How is this allowed?
Get a life.
When i ran in college i had to sign a document stating i wouldn't use banned substances.
the amount of caffeine cited as the illegal amount was like 6-8 cups of coffee.
check the list by WADA:
https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/wada_2019_english_prohibited_list.pdf[quote]drink 6 cups of coffee 2 hours before a race and let me know wrote:
[
the amount of caffeine cited as the illegal amount was like 6-8 cups of coffee.
/quote]
Which you can easily take in pill form or ....
wait for it...
CHEW IT IN GUM!
Dumb ass!
High levels of caffeine are still a banned substance by the NCAA. Did Symmonds use caffeine while in college? Tsk tsk
Hexley9 wrote:
Might as well ban intra-race calorie consumption.
But I kinda agree with this point. You know what else is performance enhancing in Coke and Gu? Sugar. And with all the sports drinks claiming performance enhancement with their carbohydrate formulations doesn't that sound like... performance enhancement? What about B12 vitamins?
A lot more people are dying from diabetes than whatever negative effects caffeine causes, if that is your justification for banning a drug. I actually try to avoid caffeine, but banning it seems a little ridiculous.
team Unruly Bush wrote:
But I kinda agree with this point. You know what else is performance enhancing in Coke and Gu? Sugar. And with all the sports drinks claiming performance enhancement with their carbohydrate formulations doesn't that sound like... performance enhancement? What about B12 vitamins?
A lot more people are dying from diabetes than whatever negative effects caffeine causes, if that is your justification for banning a drug. I actually try to avoid caffeine, but banning it seems a little ridiculous.
You donkeys still don't get it. It's about intent. There are a lot of drugs where you can get a TUE despite them being performance enhancing. This does not mean it's OK to specifically use them as a PED.
Again, here is the purpose of the monitoring program:
"WADA, in consultation with Signatories and governments, shall establish a monitoring program regarding substances which are not on the Prohibited List, but which WADA wishes to monitor in order to detect patterns of misuse in sport."
Caffeine would not be part of the monitoring program if WADA wasn't concerned about it being MISUSED. Misuse would include chewing it so as to be rapidly absorbed lingually or sublingually through tissues in the mouth for the purpose of in competition performance enhancement.
Continue to disagree if you want, but don't be shocked when WADA starts regulating it again.
Sorry, I don't see the word "caffeine" in the monitoring program section
I Wada Know wrote:
Caffeine in high doses was a banned drug, in competition until 2004. It still remains part of the WADA monitoring program for misuse.
The World Anti-Doping Code (Article 4.5) states:
WADA, in consultation with Signatories and governments, shall establish a monitoring program regarding substances which are not on the Prohibited List, but which WADA wishes to monitor in order to detect patterns of misuse in sport.
Nick Symmonds just put out a video bragging that he legally used caffeine everyday his entire pro career and now he sells and markets his caffeine gum, solely for the purpose of performance enhancement. He has said that he sells it in gum form for the quickest absorption and thus the fastest effect. This would clearly be considered "misuse" by WADA, per their monitoring program.
For a substance to be considered banned, it must meet 2 of the 3 criteria:
It has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance;
It represents an actual or potential health risk to the Athlete;
It violates the spirit of sport (this definition is outlined in the Code).
Caffeine was removed from the banned list because WADA did not want to unfairly sanction someone who drank a Coke or a cup of coffee. It remains part of the monitoring program to ascertain whether it is used by athletes to enhance their athletic performances.
Nick Symmonds states:
This was a hard confession to make, but it feels good to finally be honest with my fans. Yes I trained hard, but I also had a very powerful chemical helping me...
I get it, yes, I know he was being facetious and only trying to hype his product, something he does well, but it also proves his purpose and motivation for caffeine. The purpose is 100% for in competition athletic performance enhancement and this is clearly "misuse" per WADA and it violates the spirit of the sport.
How is this allowed?
I have coffee/caffeine pill before every hard session, race, and sometimes even easy runs.
If anyone on this thread has ever actually had too much caffeine (3 pills or like 6 cups of coffee) you would know that it makes you feel way too jittery and definitely is detrimental to the system past a certain point. At this point you're not getting additional exercise benefits from it either, there's just no way.
Nowhere near comparable to any real PED
oops, found it
Luv2Run wrote:
Your dismissal of the science is pretty disturbing.
So sorry for your hurt feelings, but don't accuse me of "dismissing" things that I'm merely interpreting properly. Refer to the study I already addressed, which concluded nothing and may have discovered merely that caffeine can wake up sleepy hobby cyclists.
There are drugs that can stimulate an athlete to capabilities well beyond what they could do otherwise. Those are the PEDs that violate the "spirit" of the sport - being superhuman in a contest for best human. Caffeine is not one of them.
Big Time User wrote:
I have coffee/caffeine pill before every hard session, race, and sometimes even easy runs.
If anyone on this thread has ever actually had too much caffeine (3 pills or like 6 cups of coffee) you would know that it makes you feel way too jittery and definitely is detrimental to the system past a certain point. At this point you're not getting additional exercise benefits from it either, there's just no way.
Nowhere near comparable to any real PED
All it does is help get you ready to go, i.e. warm up.
In a major race situation, you line up in fight-or-flight mode no matter what. There is a drug that can keep that going during the race, but it's not caffeine.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Big Time User wrote:
I have coffee/caffeine pill before every hard session, race, and sometimes even easy runs.
If anyone on this thread has ever actually had too much caffeine (3 pills or like 6 cups of coffee) you would know that it makes you feel way too jittery and definitely is detrimental to the system past a certain point. At this point you're not getting additional exercise benefits from it either, there's just no way.
Nowhere near comparable to any real PED
All it does is help get you ready to go, i.e. warm up.
In a major race situation, you line up in fight-or-flight mode no matter what. There is a drug that can keep that going during the race, but it's not caffeine.
Take your “L” like a man, Malcolm.
It’s not banned because it’s so ubiquitous in drinks and foods that it’s stupid to regulate it. It would be like banning taking sugar in a race [palm meets forehead].
Bad Wigins wrote:
There are drugs that can stimulate an athlete to capabilities well beyond what they could do otherwise. Those are the PEDs that violate the "spirit" of the sport - being superhuman in a contest for best human. Caffeine is not one of them.
This shows how stupid and uninformed you are. The most commonly abused drug by distance runners is EPO. Not only is EPO not a wonder drug, it's naturally occurring in the body and often prescribed to anemic patients. It simply stimulates bone marrow to produce more red blood cells. It's the equivalent of sustained training at altitude without having to go to altitude. The notion that it "can stimulate an athlete to capabilities well beyond what they could do otherwise" is moronic. Most PEDs provide a very small advantage and that very small advantage in a race that lasts mere minutes and is often decided by fractions of a seconds, can be the difference between going home with a gold medal around your neck or going home with your nutsack in your hand.
Caffeine is just as much of a drug as is EPO, if not more so, since it doesn't occur naturally in the human body.
It's pointless to argue with an idiot like you that denies science.
Give up, you lost!