Ggff wrote:
Why would a guy who isn’t elite runner care about other runners cheating? He feels bitter that he might have got 265th place instead of 266th
This 100%.
This speaks volumes about the kind of person who would “tell” on someone in this kind of scenario instead of just minding their own business. And it’s all bad. Really bad. And I’m not kidding even a little bit. I know people like this. I’m sure we all do.
You think that's bad? I was in Berlin a few months ago and a load of guys - some whom I believe were even professional athletes - were running in these shoes which seems to have a big bouncy spring in them! It was really annoying as they were all brightly colored so you couldn't miss these cheaters. I think one of them even broke the record.
John Utah wrote:
Ggff wrote:
Why would a guy who isn’t elite runner care about other runners cheating? He feels bitter that he might have got 265th place instead of 266th
This 100%.
This speaks volumes about the kind of person who would “tell” on someone in this kind of scenario instead of just minding their own business. And it’s all bad. Really bad. And I’m not kidding even a little bit. I know people like this. I’m sure we all do.
So, by your logic anyone at anytime can cut the course, right? Using that to the extreme, why even bother to certify courses? Let people run what they think is the shortest distance between the start and finish lines, right?
Again, I'm not bitter against this particular guy yesterday but this has happened way too many times over the years from very good runners who know the rules.
RI red wrote:
...been racing 39 years and have seen countless runners going up on the sidewalk at 90 degree corners. Today, a very experienced age grouper did it twice on a certified course. I know the course measurer didn't put his/her wheel up on the sidewalk for certification. What's the deal with this? Do we all allow these people a free pass? Do we keep quiet? Is this cheating?
Discuss.
Simple solution: be in front of these people instead of behind them. Then you won’t even see this happen, and you won’t have to worry about it.
What was his approximate time? You still haven't told us. The point is that it really only matters if the guy is fast or taking prize money. it's like our Thanksgiving Day family football game. We have no refs and there aren't many penalties called. Some things just don't matter. Only hobby joggers care about other slow runners cutting the course. The winner probably didn't care about this guy cutting corners.
Thanks for giving us distance runners a bad rep.
RI red wrote:
...been racing 39 years and have seen countless runners going up on the sidewalk at 90 degree corners. Today, a very experienced age grouper did it twice on a certified course. I know the course measurer didn't put his/her wheel up on the sidewalk for certification. What's the deal with this? Do we all allow these people a free pass? Do we keep quiet? Is this cheating?
Discuss.
How is everyone supposed to know where they measured the course? If that part of the course isn't blocked off it seems fair game. If the race doesn't want people doing that then they should block it off.
just don't look wrote:
RI red wrote:
...been racing 39 years and have seen countless runners going up on the sidewalk at 90 degree corners. Today, a very experienced age grouper did it twice on a certified course. I know the course measurer didn't put his/her wheel up on the sidewalk for certification. What's the deal with this? Do we all allow these people a free pass? Do we keep quiet? Is this cheating?
Discuss.
Simple solution: be in front of these people instead of behind them. Then you won’t even see this happen, and you won’t have to worry about it.
Simple solution would be to turn the clock back 40 years, and then, yes, I would never see this happen. It's funny how age plays this game with you...you slow down and get to see lots of things happen in front of you during a race. I hope you have the opportunity to experience this later in your life.
Sounds like this sprightly go-getter was making hay on the racing line whilst old grandad here was snoozing his way down through the field.
Time to hang up the old racing flats for good instead of seeking excuses.
Bsuvjsjvo wrote:
RI red wrote:
...been racing 39 years and have seen countless runners going up on the sidewalk at 90 degree corners. Today, a very experienced age grouper did it twice on a certified course. I know the course measurer didn't put his/her wheel up on the sidewalk for certification. What's the deal with this? Do we all allow these people a free pass? Do we keep quiet? Is this cheating?
Discuss.
How is everyone supposed to know where they measured the course? If that part of the course isn't blocked off it seems fair game. If the race doesn't want people doing that then they should block it off.
Because experienced, high-level runners KNOW you don't cut a corner up on a sidewalk inside a light pole in a road race. I have some experience with certification so can tell you this is not how they would measure a road race UNLESS the race organizers clearly marked the course as such.
Seems like some people are saying it's ok to take PED's then. As long as you don't get caught then it's perfectly ok, right?
BTW, it doesn't matter what time this guy ran, and no he didn't get any prize money.
Geez Louise, I bet YOU are a fun guy at parties!
RI red wrote:
Because experienced, high-level runners KNOW you don't cut a corner up on a sidewalk inside a light pole in a road race.
Then why TF start this passive-aggressive "help me understand if this is 'legal'" thread?
RI red wrote:
John Utah wrote:
This 100%.
This speaks volumes about the kind of person who would “tell” on someone in this kind of scenario instead of just minding their own business. And it’s all bad. Really bad. And I’m not kidding even a little bit. I know people like this. I’m sure we all do.
So, by your logic anyone at anytime can cut the course, right? Using that to the extreme, why even bother to certify courses? Let people run what they think is the shortest distance between the start and finish lines, right?
Again, I'm not bitter against this particular guy yesterday but this has happened way too many times over the years from very good runners who know the rules.
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. These douchebags always have some kind of ridiculous justification for playing little policeman. And it's always some kind of tedious, pedantic, distorted, take it to the extreme, all or nothing mindset, which is far removed from practical reality. Why do these people think they need to be in charge of other people? Stay away from these toxic personalities. They are miserable people.
To most people in a road race field, the event is just an opportunity to run with other people on a controlled/measured course and to compete against themselves. Very few are even thinking of it as a race in the same vein as a track race. If you’re doing something just for yourself and you don’t view it as a competition against others, I can see how it might not even occur to you that cheating is a possibility.
Let’s say I decide to challenge myself artistically by learning to paint. I’m not very good at first, so I have a more experienced friend throw down a few of the more challenging strokes on my first few pieces. I would think it was insane if someone accused me of cheating because I got help. I’m not competing against anyone, and I’m the only person who cares about my work, so cheating isn’t really even a possibility. Yeah, some ethical issues would arise if I was entering the work in a art show under my own name, but I’m nowhere close to good enough for that, so who cares. I think most hobby joggers view their running this same way.
Yes it is illegal, everyone knows it, including you before you started this thread.
Nobody calls anyone out on it for the same reason no one calls minor traveling in pick up basketball. You don't want to look like a baby. Everyone that saw the dude up on the sidewalks knows he's a cheater, the same way everyone knows who the jerks are that take an extra step every time they get the ball.
Yes the time matters. The rules should be applied along a continuum. Watch your local turkey trot. The last finishers in the race will be a family pushing a stroller walking with grandpa. It’s out and back 5k but they turn around when the last guy goes by them so they only complete 3 miles. You want to apply the rules all the way through to them so the follow car should report them and have it show as DQ in the results for Grandpa. Sounds silly.
I have a similar issue, OP. Every year at the family reunion, we have a friendly soccer game between sides of the family. People just outright cheat all over the place. Then somehow I’m viewed as the bad guy when I won’t let an off-sides slide. It wasn't even subtle. My 6-year-old nephew was just blatantly wandering around in front of our goal, chasing butterflies while waiting for the chance to cherrypick a goal.
Long story short, I’ve been asked not to attend this year’s reunion. Their loss, though. The whole thing will just descend into chaos and disorder without a reasonable adult present to enforce the rules.
Do we all allow these people a free pass? Yes
Do we keep quiet? Yes
Is this cheating? Yes
That's my view anyway.
If you lose a close race to someone who does this, I can see getting annoyed.
Maybe make a comment if it made a difference.
Otherwise, I just worry about my own performance.
similar issue wrote:
I have a similar issue, OP. Every year at the family reunion, we have a friendly soccer game between sides of the family. People just outright cheat all over the place. Then somehow I’m viewed as the bad guy when I won’t let an off-sides slide. It wasn't even subtle. My 6-year-old nephew was just blatantly wandering around in front of our goal, chasing butterflies while waiting for the chance to cherrypick a goal.
Long story short, I’ve been asked not to attend this year’s reunion. Their loss, though. The whole thing will just descend into chaos and disorder without a reasonable adult present to enforce the rules.
awesome
It is cheating.
There are plenty of FUN races where you keep your own time and just participate in support of the cause.
There are also group runs, local running clubs, all opportunities to be social and non-competitive.
The OP's race had an independent course measurement and race manager/timer. Runners who go for PRs are serious about their effort.
In my state, we have a runner/family that overly dramatizes the running experience on social media. Races nowadays require you sign off your image rights. There are race photographers. You get your snapshot on the other side of the cones from everyone else, then you boast about your achievement on social media, there is a slight issue ... later you try to enter your time in the AG records and you boast about it again on social media.
Right, this is no different than the 6yo catching flies in the family soccer game ...
Let's not make cheating a sport of its own.
My race fee gives me a right to expect that the rules will be followed. That would be my preference anyways.
During the race, however, it is difficult to notice. Just as another poster commented, get to the top of your age group and forget about what happens behind you. There is a lot of shaet in this world. Don't mix with it.