Bekele vs Jim Ryun in a mile

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6 years ago 11/20/2018 3:17pm EST

re: m!ndweak

m!ndweak wrote:
well jim ryun was a 3:33.1, and what we know is EPO gives around 7-8 seconds, so i would have ol jimbo running a 325.1 - 3:26.1....forget all that dirt track for just a minute, and convert his 3:33.1 to FAT, and that puts him at a 3:33.36, then sauce him up on EPO for ~7- 8 seconds and you have a 3:25.36 - 3:26.36....and as you can see ol jimbo on EPO was right there with El G....and El G beat KB so jim beats KB.
now we hop a sauced up jimbo on that annoying fake monaco track and dude now runs vent/calculo fantasy of 3'24...but so would have El G

Ryun, most likely as did others of 1960's sampled amphetamines. You can't add three or four seconds of performance enhancement from speed pills plus seven seconds of performance enhancement due to EPO. No world record ability for Ryun in modern era in 1500m.

6 years ago 11/20/2018 3:25pm EST

re: not so fast!

not so fast! wrote:
m!ndweak wrote:
well jim ryun was a 3:33.1, and what we know is EPO gives around 7-8 seconds, so i would have ol jimbo running a 325.1 - 3:26.1....forget all that dirt track for just a minute, and convert his 3:33.1 to FAT, and that puts him at a 3:33.36, then sauce him up on EPO for ~7- 8 seconds and you have a 3:25.36 - 3:26.36....and as you can see ol jimbo on EPO was right there with El G....and El G beat KB so jim beats KB.
now we hop a sauced up jimbo on that annoying fake monaco track and dude now runs vent/calculo fantasy of 3'24...but so would have El G
Ryun, most likely as did others of 1960's sampled amphetamines. You can't add three or four seconds of performance enhancement from speed pills plus seven seconds of performance enhancement due to EPO. No world record ability for Ryun in modern era in 1500m.

what are you smoking bra? must be some of them phetamines

im not adding 3-4 from meth and then adding 7 for EPO....

im adding .25 for being hand timed to give a FAT conversion, then subtracting 7 seconds for EPO, then subtracting 2 seconds on what you subtract when you run at monaco.

if your saying he got 3-4 seconds for using meth, then that puts him at 3:36-37, but on a DIRT track....so he was one second better than tip toucher ramzi, and ramzi sauced and crushed a 3:29, so jimbo would have run AT LEAST 3:29 with meth + EPO+monaco.....minus monaco it puts him at 3:31......BOOOM HOLY F*CKING SNIKES!!! that means him and KB would be pretty F*CKING CLOSE!!!!

where is rek and vent/calculo when you dont need them!?!?!

6 years ago 11/20/2018 5:26pm EST

re: m!ndweak

m!ndweak wrote:
well jim ryun was a 3:33.1, and what we know is EPO gives around 7-8 seconds, so i would have ol jimbo running a 325.1 - 3:26.1....forget all that dirt track for just a minute, and convert his 3:33.1 to FAT, and that puts him at a 3:33.36, then sauce him up on EPO for ~7- 8 seconds and you have a 3:25.36 - 3:26.36....and as you can see ol jimbo on EPO was right there with El G....and El G beat KB so jim beats KB.
now we hop a sauced up jimbo on that annoying fake monaco track and dude now runs vent/calculo fantasy of 3'24...but so would have El G

Where do you get 7 or 8 seconds advantage for EPO from?

I seriously doubt it would be that for 1500m, maybe 5000m!

The accounts I’ve read on these boards and other articles I’ve read, and I’m not claiming I know these to be 100% accurate, suggests about 3 secs for the top elite.

who cares about raw sprinting ability wrote:
Deanouk wrote:
Agreed! Ryun in 67 form would destroy Bekele in any type of 1500 or mile race. If it’s slow, Ryun’s 47 400m speed out kicks Bekele easily. Bekele was no better than 3:31 for 1500, Ryun was running 3:33 on dirt, and off fairly uneven splits, which is probably worth 3:30 on modern synthetic and half decent pacing, so Bekele wouldn’t have been able to drop him in a fast race.
Bekele would never have broken the 1500 WR had he focused on it, a ludicrous claim. He was perfect for 5 and 10k, and that was highly likely with a little help from EPO!
Ryun was one of the all time great milers. Bekele wouldn’t have posed a threat.
Since 400m is raced in lanes the entire distance, no one handicaps a 400m race based upon which athlete has the most superior 100m PB. We know Bekele was not afraid of H.el.G.'s raw speed; Bekele would not have allowed a 1500m versus Ryun to turn into a jog & sprint. Bekele would have taken Ryun through 1000m sub-2:20. Ryan would not have been able to demonstrate his 1:44.xx 800m speed versus Bekele. People act as if Ryan would have been a great 1500m runner in the current era. Ryun would have been a solid 1:42.xx 800m specialist in the current era, maybe even slightly faster. Ryun was physically too large to race 1500m well. No sub-3:29 1500m runners are anywhere near Ryun's size.

What? Absolute nonsense.

EL G is physically much closer to Ryun than Bekele!

Ryun is around the same build and height as Cram, who was a 3:29/3:46 runner and capable of faster. Ryun would be a contender for medals over 1500m in any era.

6 years ago 11/20/2018 5:45pm EST

re: m!ndweak

m!ndweak wrote:
Kenenisa Bekele wrote:
Who wins?
who wins!?!?!?
duuuur its obviously jim ryun! everyone knows he had PRs of
43'9
1'39
3'24
if he ran 3'24 that gives him a 3'40 mile! boooom long live vent!!!!

Whatever happened to ventolin?

6 years ago 11/20/2018 5:59pm EST

re: Deanouk

Deanouk wrote:
who cares about raw sprinting ability wrote:
Since 400m is raced in lanes the entire distance, no one handicaps a 400m race based upon which athlete has the most superior 100m PB. We know Bekele was not afraid of H.el.G.'s raw speed; Bekele would not have allowed a 1500m versus Ryun to turn into a jog & sprint. Bekele would have taken Ryun through 1000m sub-2:20. Ryan would not have been able to demonstrate his 1:44.xx 800m speed versus Bekele. People act as if Ryan would have been a great 1500m runner in the current era. Ryun would have been a solid 1:42.xx 800m specialist in the current era, maybe even slightly faster. Ryun was physically too large to race 1500m well. No sub-3:29 1500m runners are anywhere near Ryun's size.
What? Absolute nonsense.
EL G is physically much closer to Ryun than Bekele!
Ryun is around the same build and height as Cram, who was a 3:29/3:46 runner and capable of faster. Ryun would be a contender for medals over 1500m in any era.

You must be confused. Noureddine Morceli has an 800m PB not too far away from Jim Ryun's 800m PB. H. el.G.'s 800m PB is close to Mohammed Farah's 800m PB. According to Olympic Sport Reference, Jim Ryun, 6'2" 168lbs. Steve Cram, 6'1" 152lbs. Jim Ryun was built more like Johnny Gray, an 800m specialist, 6'3" 165lbs. or Duane Solomon, 6'3" 170lbs. No sub-3:29 potential for Ryun. When you state I am wrong, please reply with a list of 6'2" 170lbs. sub-3:29 1500m runners.

6 years ago 11/20/2018 6:07pm EST

re: Kenenisa Bekele

Wait, so some of you muppets really think a 71-year-old is going to beat Bekele in a race?

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6 years ago 11/20/2018 6:50pm EST

re: Deanouk

Deanouk wrote:
m!ndweak wrote:
well jim ryun was a 3:33.1, and what we know is EPO gives around 7-8 seconds, so i would have ol jimbo running a 325.1 - 3:26.1....forget all that dirt track for just a minute, and convert his 3:33.1 to FAT, and that puts him at a 3:33.36, then sauce him up on EPO for ~7- 8 seconds and you have a 3:25.36 - 3:26.36....and as you can see ol jimbo on EPO was right there with El G....and El G beat KB so jim beats KB.
now we hop a sauced up jimbo on that annoying fake monaco track and dude now runs vent/calculo fantasy of 3'24...but so would have El G
Where do you get 7 or 8 seconds advantage for EPO from?
I seriously doubt it would be that for 1500m, maybe 5000m!
The accounts I’ve read on these boards and other articles I’ve read, and I’m not claiming I know these to be 100% accurate, suggests about 3 secs for the top elite.

Where you been doggy? Ramzi dropped 9 seconds, kiprop slowed down 7-8 seconds on Monaco

We have been over this it’s ~4% improvement, thus it’s like this

800 : 2-3 sec

1500 : 7-8

3000: 15

5k : 25-30

10k : 60

Marathon : 4-5 minutes

6 years ago 11/20/2018 7:19pm EST

Armstronglivs wrote:
Banana Bread wrote:
Bekele ran a 3:32 1500m and has the WR for the indoor 2,000m at 4:49 so he is sub 3:50 just based from that. I think he could have had the potential to challenge El G's WR if he focused more on it. Imagine if he concentrated on the 1500m and 5000m double for a few years after. He should have done this after his 26:17 in 2005 and WC gold in 2005. If he concentrated on 1500,5000m from 2005 after WC until the end of 2007, he could have the WR for the mile/1500m and sub 12:30 5,000m. Wow, just wow.
Bekele got burned at the finish of the 5k in Athens '04 by El G. El G did not have Ryun's sprint speed. Comparing times thirty and forty years apart doesn't do it. Ryun had the greater speed (than either of those guys) Put them in the same track today the American takes out the Ethiopian, just as El G was able to do. (Oh - and no EPO's.)

A fast finish means nothing if you can't keep up.

Bekele also thrashed Lagat over 5000m, a 3:26 1500m guy, with better top end speed than El G had. So using such races doesn't really point us anywhere. We could just as rightly use Bekele > Lagat to support KB for the win over Ryun.

6 years ago 11/20/2018 9:05pm EST

re: Ryun is old

Ryun is old wrote:
Wait, so some of you muppets really think a 71-year-old is going to beat Bekele in a race?

0/10

6 years ago 11/20/2018 9:25pm EST

Armstronglivs wrote:
You must be confused. Noureddine Morceli has an 800m PB not too far away from Jim Ryun's 800m PB. H. el.G.'s 800m PB is close to Mohammed Farah's 800m PB. According to Olympic Sport Reference, Jim Ryun, 6'2" 168lbs. Steve Cram, 6'1" 152lbs. Jim Ryun was built more like Johnny Gray, an 800m specialist, 6'3" 165lbs. or Duane Solomon, 6'3" 170lbs. No sub-3:29 potential for Ryun. When you state I am wrong, please reply with a list of 6'2" 170lbs. sub-3:29 1500m runners.

Kiprop. 6'2 1/2" 139lbs. 3.26.6. Oh, wait.[/quote]

I am sure you are better than that. You know Asbel Kiprop, listed at 6'2 1/2" 139lbs. on Olympic Sport Reference had a different build than Jim Ryun, 6'2" 168lbs.

who cares about raw sprinting speed wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You must be confused. Noureddine Morceli has an 800m PB not too far away from Jim Ryun's 800m PB. H. el.G.'s 800m PB is close to Mohammed Farah's 800m PB. According to Olympic Sport Reference, Jim Ryun, 6'2" 168lbs. Steve Cram, 6'1" 152lbs. Jim Ryun was built more like Johnny Gray, an 800m specialist, 6'3" 165lbs. or Duane Solomon, 6'3" 170lbs. No sub-3:29 potential for Ryun. When you state I am wrong, please reply with a list of 6'2" 170lbs. sub-3:29 1500m runners.
Kiprop. 6'2 1/2" 139lbs. 3.26.6. Oh, wait.

I am sure you are better than that. You know Asbel Kiprop, listed at 6'2 1/2" 139lbs. on Olympic Sport Reference had a different build than Jim Ryun, 6'2" 168lbs.[/quote]

Not saying Ryun didn't do some PEDs, but how do we know what the ideal build for 1500m? Asbel Kiprop for all we know only ran what he did was due to PEDs. Andrew Wheating was 6'5 at 180 ibs and ran a 3:30 1500m. At one end of the Spectrum is Taoufik Makhloufi at 5'9 and 154 ibs with a 1500m PR of 3:28 and than we have Abdalaati Iguider who is listed at 5'7 and 115 ibs, both have almost identical 1500m PRs. Me personally, I believe the ideal build for a pure 1500m runner is like a 400m runner, but a bit leaner, so think Alan Webb.

how do we know the ideal build for 1500m wrote:
Not saying Ryun didn't do some PEDs, but how do we know what the ideal build for 1500m? Asbel Kiprop for all we know only ran what he did was due to PEDs. Andrew Wheating was 6'5 at 180 ibs and ran a 3:30 1500m. At one end of the Spectrum is Taoufik Makhloufi at 5'9 and 154 ibs with a 1500m PR of 3:28 and than we have Abdalaati Iguider who is listed at 5'7 and 115 ibs, both have almost identical 1500m PRs. Me personally, I believe the ideal build for a pure 1500m runner is like a 400m runner, but a bit leaner, so think Alan Webb.

According to IAAF, 14 men have raced sub-3:29 1500m. So, according to you (I do not feel like looking up height & weight of all 14) T.M. is the heaviest sub-3:29 1500m runner at 154lbs. It is not proof of anything, but it's a bit interesting to know.

who cares about raw sprinting speed wrote:
how do we know the ideal build for 1500m wrote:
Not saying Ryun didn't do some PEDs, but how do we know what the ideal build for 1500m? Asbel Kiprop for all we know only ran what he did was due to PEDs. Andrew Wheating was 6'5 at 180 ibs and ran a 3:30 1500m. At one end of the Spectrum is Taoufik Makhloufi at 5'9 and 154 ibs with a 1500m PR of 3:28 and than we have Abdalaati Iguider who is listed at 5'7 and 115 ibs, both have almost identical 1500m PRs. Me personally, I believe the ideal build for a pure 1500m runner is like a 400m runner, but a bit leaner, so think Alan Webb.
According to IAAF, 14 men have raced sub-3:29 1500m. So, according to you (I do not feel like looking up height & weight of all 14) T.M. is the heaviest sub-3:29 1500m runner at 154lbs. It is not proof of anything, but it's a bit interesting to know.

1. Hicham El Guerrouj 6'0 and 138 ibs (despite popular myths that he is only 5'9 and 128 ibs, he is actually larger than that)

2. Bernard Lagat 5'8 and 128 ibs

3. Asbel Kiprop 6'3 and 137 ibs

4. Noureddine Morceli 5'9 and 132 ibs

5. Silas Kiplagat 5'7 and 123 ibs

6. Noah Ngeny 6'0 and 150 ibs

7. Timothy Cheruiyot 5'11 and 143 ibs

8. Abdalaati Iguider 5'7 and 115 ibs

9. Taoufik Makhloufi 5'9 and 154 ibs

10. Elijah Manangoi 6'0 and 140 ibs

11. Mo Farah 5'8 and 132 ibs

12. Ronald Kwemoi 5'8 and 128 ibs

13. Fermín Cacho 5'8.5 and 143 ibs

14. Mehdi Baala 6'0 and 143 ibs

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