How do we define the term “maximum steady state?”

Elixer wrote:

What?? wrote:

I do not agree with Elixer that maximum steady state is the same as aerobic threshold. You are confusing anaerobic threshold with the aerobic threshold. At the AnT, lactate levels begin to reach 4mmol at which point you’ve surpassed your maximum steady state. Well trained runners can run “steady” right up to 85% of their MHR which is much closer to AnT than to the aerobic threshold.

I'm not confusing anything. Aerobic threshold is where blood lactate levels start increasing above resting levels(OBLA)(usually but not all the time, this is around 2mmol). Anearobic threshold is around 4mmol as you said(lactate inflection point). Disagree with me if you want. Well trained runner can run up to 85% of where lactate inflection point occurs or lactate threshold.

So, 4mmol lactate threshold is way above maxium steady state as you state and well trained athletes can run around 85% mhr and be steady state you say? 85% of mhr is actually where lactate threshold and inflection takes place in trained athletes so you've contradicted yourself there.

Elixer wrote:

What?? wrote:

I do not agree with Elixer that maximum steady state is the same as aerobic threshold. You are confusing anaerobic threshold with the aerobic threshold. At the AnT, lactate levels begin to reach 4mmol at which point you’ve surpassed your maximum steady state. Well trained runners can run “steady” right up to 85% of their MHR which is much closer to AnT than to the aerobic threshold.

I'm not confusing anything. Aerobic threshold is where blood lactate levels start increasing above resting levels(OBLA)(usually but not all the time, this is around 2mmol). Anearobic threshold is around 4mmol as you said(lactate inflection point). Disagree with me if you want. Well trained runner can run up to 85% of where lactate inflection point occurs or lactate threshold.

So, 4mmol lactate threshold is way above maxium steady state as you state and well trained athletes can run around 85% mhr and be steady state you say? 85% of mhr is actually where lactate threshold and inflection takes place in trained athletes so you've contradicted yourself there.

Elixer wrote:

steadystatin wrote:

All these Lydiard posts got me reading more of his stuff again. It's been a while.

It seems the steady state pace would change a bit based on the distance run. I found a number of people saying best case steady state would be around 10 to 15 seconds slower than MP. In these contexts they were referring to runs in the 60 to 90 minute range that you cold regularly repeat without slowing down or breaking down.

But compared to the long run, it is a bit slower than that. If you look at what Lydiard's boys were doing on their infamous 22 mile long runs, the faster loops had them running in the 5:30s to 5:50s per mile as they neared peak base fitness. For those guys that was about MP+30-50 seconds. Interestingly this is right in range with what some of the modern coaches are having their runners do in faster long runs. Often written as 20 miles at 90% of MP or 95%MP.

So you can certainly attach some numbers. But I think the "feel" part comes in because it can change based on the day, the distance, the point in the season, etc.

This is probably the best answer in terms of Lydiard philosophy and not looking at the point of maximum steady state.

Lydiard modulated efforts and distances as he thought that gave the best results. None of his athletes contrary to a newly emerging belief ran every run at maxium steady state. The runs were all high-end aerobic and faster than easy but they weren't going out hammering every run at Marathon effort either.