Fuel on long runs/during marathon essential?

If you've got 3 weeks, I think it's still worth experimenting with fueling, even if you're not going 20 miles or spending much time at MP. The hard part about fueling all happens before you hit the wall, so practicing eating on the run, and seeing how far in advance of a water stop you need to grab the gel, and experiencing what it feels like to run with 50-100 g of raspberry-flavored maltodextrin in your gut is all still worth doing.

going the distance wrote:

I apologize for hijacking the thread but this is of huge interest to me.

I’ve always taken just water or Gatorade and knocked out both official HMs and my own regular 16-milers without an issue. Since I started training for the full marathon, I’ve experimented a bit with gels etc and they make me really sick. I’m thinking of going back to chocolate, which was my endurance mainstay way, way back when I skied competitively in college.

It may seem silly that I didn’t start addressing fuel needs till my first 22-mile run but I run in the wilderness where it is a really bad idea to have food with you.

If it works, go for it. The whole "training the stomach" thing is what Yannis Pitsiladis is working on doing.. developing a high concentration carbohydrate solution that the stomach will not reject.

I'm quite jealous of my friends that put down red bull mixed into their bottles with water and whatever other powder during their marathons.

I have a week left. It’s been 2 wks since my longest run, the one where I bonked so hard it felt like the only reason I finished the last 4 miles was that they were downhill and there was no Uber along the trail. I did try the lovely maltodextrin bomb gel on the shorter runs during my taper since, but my stomach rebels and I get weird shakes. I’m tolerating chocolate OK. We’ll see if it does the trick when it counts.

I read a bit through some of Pitdiladis’ work just now: it seems his CHO delivery system basically aims to bypass the stomach altogether and release glucose directly into the intestine. Besides significantly increasing bioavailability it would also greatly reduce the “upchuck factor,” wouldn’t it?

Yeah, I should’ve been asking all this 3+ months ago. I may have f...d up this whole prep. OK, I did f...k up the prep. Best I can do now is run the damn thing and hope to get through the last 6-8 miles on sheer stubbornness.

Perhaps you mentioned this elsewhere in the thread, but is there a specific reason you wouldn’t want to take in food? Similar to what others have mentioned, I have a really weak stomach while running. So any benefit fueling would be offset by time needing to stop for a bathroom.

What I’ve done in my two competitive marathons was start the race with a Gerbers squeezable bananna flavor pouch in my hand (yes, the baby food). I tried a lot of gels, but I found baby food to be the only thing to not upset my stomach. I’d eat it shortly after the halfway mark. I’d grab a gel offered by the race towards the end too, just something to trick the mind and maybe eat some if it after mile 22 (I’m not sure if eating that late even helps, but figured pushing through stomach pain for 20-25 wouldn’t be too difficult if needed).

I’ve had success (relative) using this approach. My first marathon was even split with the limited calorie intake - both HM splits were a touch under 1:12:30. My second marathon using this approach resulted in the same time, but with a 4 minute spread in split - although the most likely reason for that was a 15:35 3 mile split starting at mile 3 foolishly trying to hang with the pack of race leaders which was above my ability.

KawauchiFTW_ wrote:

This is what I do before and during marathon races. It works for me almost to perfection.

Before the start:

2 hours: light breakfast, usually oatmeal with maple syrup, coffee

60 min.: GU Roctane gel, plus I start to "pre-hydrate" with Roctane powder/water mix. I drink about a liter (2 pints) between now and the start.

10-15 min.: Another gel, with caffeine

During the race:

I don't drink during the first hour of the race, unless super hot.

Gel with caffeine around miles 8-10, start hydrating regularly, too, from here on. Every 3-4 miles... Water only!!! Occasionally, I might flush my mouth with Gatorade but spit it out.

One more gel, again with caffeine, around miles 16-18.

That's all, just two gels that don't upset my stomach when running at race speed. I don't know what the WALL everybody keeps talking about is;) LOL

Never had cramps or suffered dehydration? Gels, in a "reasonable" intake pattern, provide much less sodium that we are losing, specially in hot/humid conditions.

Hardloper wrote:

1stmarathonsoon wrote:

Have my first marathon in a few weeks. So far I haven’t taken fuel during any of my long runs and have been totally fine not doing so. I’m curious if anyone has input on whether it’s absolutely essential to fuel. It’s worth noting that weather has been great on these long runs. I also understand that the extra few miles of the actual marathon as opposed to the long runs are a whole different animal. Most recent long run was 17 and right near my goal pace, and I didn’t feel like I really needed fuel. Thoughts? Thanks.

Yes it is essential.... The race starts at 20 miles.

Not for nothing they say that the first 20 miles in a marathon is just a warmup for a 10K race. If you screw up in the first 20M, you'll lose your race in the last 10K.

Never had cramps and maybe experienced slight dehydration. Then again, never raced marathon in hot conditions yet, 65-70F at the finish was the highest. Dehydration is rarely an issue, I come from ultras where I go on 2-3 hour runs without water quite regularly.

During marathons I think I don't hydrate enough and leave seconds, maybe a minute, on the table because of it, but I never had any cramps in racing marathons. In ultra racing I carry salt/magnesium tables... Would probably use them, if racing a hot/humid marathon... Don't do well in those conditions so I'm trying to avoid scheduling such races... Btw, heard from friends that HotShot helps against cramps, too: teamhotshot.com

I am amazed how much work people put in for training for a marathon and then not spend a few minutes on their runs to practice fueling. Even the world record holders understand the importance of fueling and they only run for 2 hours.

Maltodextrin causes my stomach to instantly empty, so I tried multiple other gels etc. I had decent success with pure glucose and thought that was the answer until I tried a popular cornstarch based product. First marathon where I finished strong running my fastest 10k at the end.

Many responses on this thread seem to assume a super-fit athlete running serious times. It's worth noting that things change as you move more into hobby jogger territory. Runners aren't as thin, meaning they're closer to normal size.

The added weight is a real concern. If you're global elite level, your body fat is probably close to nil, but it's still enough to power you through based on your conditioning. If you're a hobby jogger running 3:30, 4:00, or more, and you're packing an extra 10, 20, 30, 40 pounds above what the super elite weighs, the added energy necessary to move that weight will sap your glycogen stores fast.

Then add in weather. If it's low 50's or cooler, great. But get into the 60's or 70's and you're going to expend lots more energy trying to keep cool than elite folks will expend.

Put weight + weather together and energy expenditures go up exponentially.

This is another reason why you've got to learn what you can ingest and what you need, and always consider whether the advice you're getting is really suited to your body type.

Carbo-loading also works, it once lasted me 33 miles in a 60K race. Gels provide that extra uumph, to run a negative split.

Almostsbs wrote:

Maltodextrin causes my stomach to instantly empty, so I tried multiple other gels etc. I had decent success with pure glucose and thought that was the answer until I tried a popular cornstarch based product. First marathon where I finished strong running my fastest 10k at the end.

I’m packing a gel just in case in addition to chocolate. I’m hoping I won’t need it (the course has been rerouted to not end in a climb like it used to), but we’ll see. I plan to finish no matter what; if I can keep the pace I’ve been sticking to in the weeks leading up, I’ll be ecstatic. If not, I’ll be trying a whole new approach to the next race.

I’m at about 17-18% body fat based on caliper measurements. I got down to 137 lbs for the last month of training, down from my normal 145 (I’m 5’11”). I’m definitely not global elite level or even local elite level, for that matter, plus my body is adapted for other sports besides running, so I’m probably not running as fast as I could. This is my first marathon ever and first serious race this year, period. I ran a half in Feb but already with hamstring tendinitis, and finishing that race benched me for 3+ mths. I stayed in cardio shape during recovery with VMX rope pull and boxing - I kept my overall muscle mass, but I’m definitely slower this year. Still, I’m shooting for a 4:05 finish, which converts to a BQ of 3:20. My age and gender min BQ time is 3:45, and there’s a whole thread on how unfair that is to the running world at large... [grin]

It looks to be about 40-55F for the temp range up there this year. Last year it snowed and was around 30F, but 55F isn’t bad. For my long training runs this summer I’ve been hauling a$$ up an 11K ft mountain in much warmer temperatures, so maybe I’ll turn out tougher than I thought on race day?

I think you're right. From what I remember reading- the idea is that it goes down as liquid but then it turns into a gel in the stomach, which then doesn't cause certain receptors to send signals of a large intake volume, thereby not making you feel nauseated/bloated.

FWIW, my stomach doesn't like gels so much, but drops go fine. The Skratch Labs ones are good.

But, yeah, man, men, you gotta fuel. The bonk is real.

There are so many products available why not try something to prevent "The Bonk"? There's more than just Gu, there are a lot of natural products etc..

Miles 16-26 is the meat of the race, I know I wouldn't want to put in all the trouble of training for a marathon and not try to get an optimal performance.

1stmarathonsoon wrote:

Have my first marathon in a few weeks. So far I haven’t taken fuel during any of my long runs and have been totally fine not doing so. I’m curious if anyone has input on whether it’s absolutely essential to fuel. It’s worth noting that weather has been great on these long runs. I also understand that the extra few miles of the actual marathon as opposed to the long runs are a whole different animal. Most recent long run was 17 and right near my goal pace, and I didn’t feel like I really needed fuel. Thoughts? Thanks.

I know the hot thing to do is run without taking in fuel, but I think this is still not an ideal strategy for the vast majority of us.

First, if you plan to take fuel during the marathon you need to figure out what works, when to take it and how much. Remember the saying: never do something during a race that you have not done in practice.

Second, I think you are setting yourself up for a bad ending. The additional 9 miles are a whole new world. A well-nourished runner with your training should be able to get through 17 miles without fuel, but then the hurt comes.

Joe Jackson wrote:

17 to 26 is not a 'few' extra miles. I, too, have done 16+ miles (16.2 to be exact) off a completely empty stomach (nothing since a snack at ~9pm the night before). But I can say that I definitely start to feel my energy levels dropping around the two hour mark. Luckily, those 16 miles only take a hair over 2 hours so I'm fine. Trying to go another 10 I would no doubt hit the proverbial wall. And I know this precisely because I've attempted it cycling and seen others, even highly trained, fail trying to go much longer than two hours without additional nutrition of some sort. An elite level marathoner finishing in 2:10-2:20 stands a much better chance of going sans fuel than a typical amateur running 3:00-4:00. That's a lot of extra time running and a lot more calories burnt as a result.

I got to think about the arithmetic...17 to 26 is about a 50% increase.