This is related somehow.
https://www.outsideonline.com/2330916/mount-whitney-climbing-accidents
This is related somehow.
https://www.outsideonline.com/2330916/mount-whitney-climbing-accidents
Powered by Plutus ads wrote:
I know the obvious answer to this is my age, but it really felt like road races in the late 1970s and the first few years of the 80s were this big dang deals, compared to now.
Then: Fields of 1,000 for big races all over, fast times to win, fast times all over. Not walking was a thing.
Now: Fields of 1,000 are small. Times are slow, and depth is non-existent. Probably half are walking, some arm-in-arm.
In England, even in the late '80s jogging clubs were just starting, and most running clubs were competitive teams that did road, track and x-country, the latter two in leagues. In addition, with no college system, all the good guys ran for their clubs, and you could get top-class runners in any halfway decent race.
Did the Basingstoke Klix 6 in one year around then (which was 10k by then) it was a decent regional race, but I think first prize was something like a golf umbrella, so not exactly a huge draw on account of the prizes. I hit 5k around 15:40 and was outside the first 30 at that stage. The race was won by Julian Goater who was a mid 27s 10000m guy.
Now you'd win more local US 5k road races than you'd lose in the US with that 15:40ish first half.
Also remember doing a no-prizes 5 miler on a Wednesday night in the middle of track season (having done a 3000m s/c on the Saturday). That was won in well under 25 min, and I think I was about 25:40 for fifth.
I also remember being one of the slowest guys on our team for the short stage in the Southern Road 12 man relay with 14:38 for something like 3 miles and 80 yards, and we ended up about 12th.
So basically no fun runs to win in 17:30 or even 16:30, and a 53 min 10 miler would see you about halfway done the field.
Luv2Run wrote:
Powered by Plutus ads wrote:
I know the obvious answer to this is my age, but it really felt like road races in the late 1970s and the first few years of the 80s were this big dang deals, compared to now.
Then: Fields of 1,000 for big races all over, fast times to win, fast times all over. Not walking was a thing.
Now: Fields of 1,000 are small. Times are slow, and depth is non-existent. Probably half are walking, some arm-in-arm.
I am thinking there were far fewer races. I bet that in many parts of the country you can find a race on any weekend with a 2hr drive.
Is there a city in the top 100 in population that does NOT have a marathon? (Seriously, I may start a post for that question).
2 hr drive? Where I live, its more like a 20 minute drive max on any given weekend. I live in a town of about 50k people, (granted part of a bigger sprawl) and the main park/lake has at least 20 races a year just right there. So almost half of the weekends my drive is 5 minutes. Many of those races draw 50 or 60 people. Only a few draw over 100.
FFF wrote:
What is this eerie race? So we can all show next time and make it current ...
--RRCA club challenge 10-mile. held every february in columbia, MD. structured as a team competition among all the local running clubs.
Schlitz light mini marathon series
You got a high quality Adidas shirt with only one logo. Entry fee was a very high at the time $5. They were mostly 10 k and winners got trips to Tampa Florida for the finals. Brian Maxwell won one of the races. Rogers and Shorter were there. The finals also had a marathon . Lasse verin came to New Orleans to win on Schlitz bill. Bob Beck and I drove in from Salmen High School to race the college kids. He may have got second but I got to go to Tampa.
Diet Pepsi had their 10k series that also gave trips to the local race winners. I won the one in Panama City during Spring break. The college SLU I ran for had a track meet at Monroe. I fly to Atlanta for the 10 k . Dollar Bill is sitting in a chair signing autographs and someone on a ladder shoots the gun early. Tom aspel takes off and the 2000 plus runners follow. Rogers is in the back of the pack. He still may have won it. After going to Waffle House I flew to Monroe for the track meet 5k. Two pr's in different states in the same day. The coach is still trying to figure that one out.
Sons of Squires wrote:
Comment: Back then, 5Ks were seldom held. Why bother? The shortest road race distances tended to be 5-Milers and 10Ks.
I didn't think the attitude was "why bother?" I thought it had more to do with the facts that (1) 5k was just perceived as more of a middle distance track event, (2) most road runners were marathoners first and foremost, and 5k was short for them, and (3) training was very focused on volume at the time. I thought the initial reaction to the Carlsbad 5000 (pour one out) was "5000 on the road? Cool idea!"
FFF wrote:
This is related somehow.
https://www.outsideonline.com/2330916/mount-whitney-climbing-accidents
Absolutely, people doing Marathons and in this case a popular hike/climb so they can post on social media to impress their friends. It is crazy. I live in the Sierras and back in the 70s and 80s we used to run up Mt. Whitney, in those days no permit was required and we just went there and ran. I have avoided Whitney in recent years as the crowds and for me the permit process is a turn off. I tend to avoid crowds and hike in places where there are few people. I am not on social media and don't carry a cell phone. Running and hiking for me has always been about the solitude and natures beauty. If you wants to be with hordes of people drive to a city and hang out in a shopping mall.
Remember too that there wasn’t a “pro circuit” for track back in the 70s and 80s... No Diamond League Races which meant that the best runners ran road races, not track races. And when they ran track races, they were lower key races in prep for a spring or fall marathon. The “big” prize was in the road races... specifically the big marathons: Boston, NY, Chicago, Fukuoka. Hence you end up with these great club teams like GBTC on which you had Rodgers, Hodge, Salazar, etc... By winning they only further fueled the running boom of the 70s which in a lot of ways spilled into the mid 80s. Then on top of that very good college guys are coming out and there weren’t “pro contracts” like there are today... so what does one do if they want to show how good they are? Answer: jump in and train for the races that the guys mentioned above are racing.
I also think it’s important to note that if you read some of commentaries from Hodgie or Rodgers, the Olympics were important but Boston was sacred... there was this almost reverence towards Boston and it was arguably harder to win Boston some years than it was to win the Olympics (that’s how deep some of the Boston fields were).
Opinion: There are times today when the sport feels so commercial: i.e. setting up Chicago for Galen to win last year... it was as one poster put it “more raw” and there was less bs... great guys showed up and just ran their guts out, and then had a beer afterward... it felt simpler.
Nostalgia wrote:
Remember too that there wasn’t a “pro circuit” for track back in the 70s and 80s... No Diamond League Races which meant that the best runners ran road races, not track races. And when they ran track races, they were lower key races in prep for a spring or fall marathon. The “big” prize was in the road races... specifically the big marathons: Boston, NY, Chicago, Fukuoka. Hence you end up with these great club teams like GBTC on which you had Rodgers, Hodge, Salazar, etc... By winning they only further fueled the running boom of the 70s which in a lot of ways spilled into the mid 80s. Then on top of that very good college guys are coming out and there weren’t “pro contracts” like there are today... so what does one do if they want to show how good they are? Answer: jump in and train for the races that the guys mentioned above are racing.
I also think it’s important to note that if you read some of commentaries from Hodgie or Rodgers, the Olympics were important but Boston was sacred... there was this almost reverence towards Boston and it was arguably harder to win Boston some years than it was to win the Olympics (that’s how deep some of the Boston fields were).
Opinion: There are times today when the sport feels so commercial: i.e. setting up Chicago for Galen to win last year... it was as one poster put it “more raw” and there was less bs... great guys showed up and just ran their guts out, and then had a beer afterward... it felt simpler.
I agree with you. Back in the 60s through the 80s timeframe, Boston was the top Marathon with Fukuoka a very close second. These two races were like you stated harder to win than the Olympic Marathon in many instances. Once NY, London and Chicago came on the scene they also drew the top runners as well, from various disciplines. I think that even today Boston has a special aura about it and if it wasn't for the unpredictable weather and competition from London, Rotterdam, Paris in the same time period it would draw more depth in talent. Although money is now the major factor as, lets face it, these guys are trying to make a living, so talent can be lured away.
Fukuoka still has a deep field as the Japanese hold this race is high regard. Many of the foreign runners run for a payday in Berlin, NY or Chicago so Fukuoka does not draw the foreign talent as it once did. Like when Clayton, Hill, Shorter, Drayton, etc ran this race.
Nostalgia wrote:
Remember too that there wasn’t a “pro circuit” for track back in the 70s and 80s... No Diamond League Races which meant that the best runners ran road races, not track races. And when they ran track races, they were lower key races in prep for a spring or fall marathon. The “big” prize was in the road races... specifically the big marathons: Boston, NY, Chicago, Fukuoka. Hence you end up with these great club teams like GBTC on which you had Rodgers, Hodge, Salazar, etc... By winning they only further fueled the running boom of the 70s which in a lot of ways spilled into the mid 80s. Then on top of that very good college guys are coming out and there weren’t “pro contracts” like there are today... so what does one do if they want to show how good they are? Answer: jump in and train for the races that the guys mentioned above are racing.
I also think it’s important to note that if you read some of commentaries from Hodgie or Rodgers, the Olympics were important but Boston was sacred... there was this almost reverence towards Boston and it was arguably harder to win Boston some years than it was to win the Olympics (that’s how deep some of the Boston fields were).
Opinion: There are times today when the sport feels so commercial: i.e. setting up Chicago for Galen to win last year... it was as one poster put it “more raw” and there was less bs... great guys showed up and just ran their guts out, and then had a beer afterward... it felt simpler.
I think you make some very valid points, but I do think it’s also worth observing that today many of the top athletes technically still do show up, run their guts out, and have a beer afterward.
Not all road races back then did feel like a big deal but sure, many did. I think some of it was due to money coming into the sport which made it possible for road races to feel like the professional events they were becoming, e.g, the timing system was more sophisticated than being handed a popsicle stick as you crossed the finish line, you got a t-shirt, and maybe the biggest part of all, races could bring in some of the best runners in the world with that money so you had races like the Midlands 15 km in New Jersey where Henry Rono would go up against Jon Sinclair, Herb Lindsay, Bill Rodgers, etc.
The sport had gotten big enough to be special but not so big as to be routine. There was a limited number of people capable of winning these races so the names were recognizable, even the African ones, to everyone. There were enough races to attract attention but not so many as to dilute the talent at the top. A bit below the top if you were serious about your racing you probably knew others who were serious too and about as fast as you were. Because there weren't races everywhere you knew that many of those people would be there for you to race. And the media not only covered a lot of these races but it covered them as actual athletic events so the stories were about who won, who they beat, how fast they ran and not about how much money was raised and which charities were going to get that money.
800 dude wrote:
most road runners were marathoners first and foremost
Your memory is failing you, my friend.
Sons of Squires wrote:
800 dude wrote:
most road runners were marathoners first and foremost
Your memory is failing you, my friend.
Yes, but 5K's were very rare. Almost all races were 5 miles or 10K.
People came to RACE, not just DO the race so they can post about it on facebook. Running the race was what mattered, not the selfies.
In the Bay Area in the 70's & 80's most races were 10K's. They started adding 5K's with the 10K's so that less competitive runners would have something to do while their boyfriends, girlfriends, husbands or wives were running the 10K. There was an occasional 5 miler, 15K, 10 miler or half marathon, but 75% of the races were 10K's.
I'm a runner to this day because of the first boom in the 1970s. I remember going to a big 10K in Zoar Village, Ohio with my Dad and brother. There were probably hundreds, but it felt like thousands to my young-kid brain. The red/white striped Dolphin shorts, Tigers and Adidas shoes, cotton t-shirts, it was fun but runners also ran hard, all of them, even the back of the pack.
It was different than what most of us were doing in those days, there was an energy and a bond at those races that is very unlike what I feel at today's commercialized and overpuffed events. They were races, period. I was proud of my Dad as he got into running and it stuck with me such that I still identify as a runner, like it's part of our family legacy somehow, even though none of us were fast.
My memory is failing me. The big race in Zoar in the 1970s was a 5-miler. Just looked it up.
Good topic.
To me, it just seems like today's road "races" aren't really races.
They're just "running events".
Like someone said earlier, "like a parade".
I agree. Geez!
Opinionated guy wrote:
Sons of Squires wrote:
Your memory is failing you, my friend.
Yes, but 5K's were very rare. Almost all races were 5 miles or 10K.
I expressed that on Page 1, amigo.
I really enjoy these nostalgic threads. However, I that it confirms that I'm actually old.
I always considered the quality of a race as not what happens at the top 1% but the top 10% (probably because I was always a wannabe top-10%er). A few elites showing up and running 28 is great but what happens after that? Today the top 1% in the big races is still fantastic; however, the depth is amazingly deficient. I recall an early 80's 15K race in Tampa that had me pumped up because I actually cracked the top-100.
Every sport has its "era" and all of us"old-timers" that got to experience road running in the late 70's - early 80's were tremendously blessed to be a part of it. We didn't just get to be a part of it, we actually made it what it was. This was something very very special that the "young'uns" of today will only get to hear about but never experience. We were blessed to be born at that right time.
My kids getting an I-phone...great. Me getting 99th place at the Gasparilla Distance Classic 15K and outkicking Grete Waitz...PRICELESS!!!
Press on, all you old-timers!