This is NOT about race.
Russians and Chinese had state-sponsored doping and tampering. No one bats an eye when we call them dirty, as those are facts.
Certain African nations turn a blind eye to their athletes when it comes to testing (due to lack of funds, incompetence, abating, or a mixture of all) and apologists bring up race.
3:26 has never been run clean.
5krun123 wrote:
Hello everybody,
I've seen countless people hate on Hicham El Guerrouj in here, doubting his record, their only real argument was that he was from Morocco, and dominated the EPO era. I have an insight on the Moroccan athletics at the time, members of my family were moroccan professional runners at the time of El G's dominance. Yes, a lot of the Moroccan runners were cheating, and they hated el G for multiple reasons, he was a snub, and he distanced himself from them, they even suspected him of being a snitch, because yes, he was the cleanest athlete in there and felt it was unfair that he had to train the way he did and other would use EPO for example. His discipline was crazy, he was very careful with his diet, too careful, some saw him as being paranoid. And his training was crazy, I personally think that the one that 10x400 53 with 30 second can't be true but whatever he was doing, he was puking his guts out at the end of the training. People didn't like how he wasted the career of a guy like El Kaouch who was his pacemaker in the world championschip and won a silver medal when he retired . And most of all, he's hated because he's rich, and the public sees him as being cheap, he's not treated like Aouita who is adored in the country.
Please explain why you equate doubting someone's honesty with hatred. If you have a daughter you love, for example, and believe she is lying to you, does it follow that you hate her because of your belief in her dishonesty? "Hate" is losing its reforming power due to such misuse.
Im on my bike. What are you on? wrote:
I feel like you could replace ElG in this story with lance Armstrong and it would have sounded the same 5 years ago
Only problem with your argument fizzed out within 3 years after he retired.
Face it pendejo, nobody has anything on the great El G.
doctorj wrote:
Im on my bike. What are you on? wrote:
I feel like you could replace ElG in this story with lance Armstrong and it would have sounded the same 5 years ago
Only problem with your argument fizzed out within 3 years after he retired.
Face it pendejo, nobody has anything on the great El G.
Yeah, ran faster than all the other dopers and he is clean. Seems legit.
DopedOrNot wrote:
Doped or not, what this guy did was insane. Look how consistently he ran sub 3:30, the next guy on the list for that mark is probably kiprop and he's miles away even while doping. If I had to guess, yes he doped but many/all his competitors were then he was on a level playing field and still dominated.
There are many, many countries where u can get whatever drug you want without a prescription. I am certain many federations coaches took advantage of that fact and their athletes were still trounced by this man time and time again.
That argument is pathetic and incorrect. Not everyone was doping at will.
Coevett wrote:
5krun123 wrote:
Hello everybody,
I've seen countless people hate on Hicham El Guerrouj in here, doubting his record, their only real argument was that he was from Morocco, and dominated the EPO era. I have an insight on the Moroccan athletics at the time, members of my family were moroccan professional runners at the time of El G's dominance. Yes, a lot of the Moroccan runners were cheating, and they hated el G for multiple reasons, he was a snub, and he distanced himself from them, they even suspected him of being a snitch, because yes, he was the cleanest athlete in there and felt it was unfair that he had to train the way he did and other would use EPO for example. His discipline was crazy, he was very careful with his diet, too careful, some saw him as being paranoid. And his training was crazy, I personally think that the one that 10x400 53 with 30 second can't be true but whatever he was doing, he was puking his guts out at the end of the training. People didn't like how he wasted the career of a guy like El Kaouch who was his pacemaker in the world championschip and won a silver medal when he retired . And most of all, he's hated because he's rich, and the public sees him as being cheap, he's not treated like Aouita who is adored in the country.
You say there's a perception that El G snitched on teammates he suspected or knew were cheating. I know that at least one or two of his training partners were eventually busted. I'm sure he'd know if his training partners were rocket fueled, and he evidently didn't 'snitch' on them when they were together.
The biggest reason I have for finding it hard to believe he was clean is the fact he retired in 2005, just when the first EPO tests were introduced. You'd think he'd want to carry on, if not for the money and winning more medals in themselves, but simply because he must have known that people would suspect him of wanting to avoid the tests by retiring at 29.
Very, very few sportsmen ever 'retire on top', even when they've got millions in the bank. Look at how boxers keep going until they're completely washed up, risking brain damage and the like. Before the 80s, it was common for Olympic champions to retire, such as Snell and Herb Elliott, but that was more because of the financial challenges of being a top athlete at the time, not because they had enough money to retire. They had to get a real job. Ovett and Cram carried on for years when they were clearly no longer even medal contenders. Coe only retired (at 33) because he had a career in politics lined up for him. I find it hard to believe that a Moroccan could choose to retire at 29 when he still had years of multi-million dollars earning potential ahead of him.
Wrong as usual because your sexual fixation on Coe and Ovette blinds you. El G retired because he had NOTHING else to prove on the track. He sealed his deal with a double 1500 / 5k in 2004 last done over 70 years ago by the GOAT Paavo Nutmi. Process that.
rojo wrote:
5krun123 wrote:
Hello everybody,
I've seen countless people hate on Hicham El Guerrouj in here, doubting his record, their only real argument was that he was from Morocco, and dominated the EPO era. I have an insight on the Moroccan athletics at the time, members of my family were moroccan professional runners at the time of El G's dominance. Yes, a lot of the Moroccan runners were cheating, and they hated el G for multiple reasons, he was a snub, and he distanced himself from them, they even suspected him of being a snitch, because yes, he was the cleanest athlete in there and felt it was unfair that he had to train the way he did and other would use EPO for example. His discipline was crazy, he was very careful with his diet, too careful, some saw him as being paranoid. And his training was crazy, I personally think that the one that 10x400 53 with 30 second can't be true but whatever he was doing, he was puking his guts out at the end of the training. People didn't like how he wasted the career of a guy like El Kaouch who was his pacemaker in the world championschip and won a silver medal when he retired . And most of all, he's hated because he's rich, and the public sees him as being cheap, he's not treated like Aouita who is adored in the country.
Say what you want. I once was talking to a top 1500 runner and he said he thought El G was dirty. I asked him how confident they were that El G was dirty. They said, "110%."
Yes, hearsay, I thought you were more intelligent than that.
Lydiard Cerutty wrote:
doctorj wrote:
Only problem with your argument fizzed out within 3 years after he retired.
Face it pendejo, nobody has anything on the great El G.
Yeah, ran faster than all the other dopers and he is clean. Seems legit.
Yes El G was better. End of story, bring credible evidence, otherwise you are just anothe conspiracy theorist living in you moms basement
doctorj wrote:
rojo wrote:
Say what you want. I once was talking to a top 1500 runner and he said he thought El G was dirty. I asked him how confident they were that El G was dirty. They said, "110%."
Yes, hearsay, I thought you were more intelligent than that.
So, we're going repeat what happened with Lance Armstrong? Same old story and dance. Of the top three 1500m runners, two of them tested positive. Plus, the IAAF is corrupt and cover up positive test all the time. Especially if it is their golden goose who tested positive.
Lydiard Cerutty wrote:
doctorj wrote:
Yes, hearsay, I thought you were more intelligent than that.
So, we're going repeat what happened with Lance Armstrong? Same old story and dance. Of the top three 1500m runners, two of them tested positive. Plus, the IAAF is corrupt and cover up positive test all the time. Especially if it is their golden goose who tested positive.
Nice speculation. Not enough for an accusation.
Coevett wrote:
5krun123 wrote:
Hello everybody,
I've seen countless people hate on Hicham El Guerrouj in here, doubting his record, their only real argument was that he was from Morocco, and dominated the EPO era. I have an insight on the Moroccan athletics at the time, members of my family were moroccan professional runners at the time of El G's dominance. Yes, a lot of the Moroccan runners were cheating, and they hated el G for multiple reasons, he was a snub, and he distanced himself from them, they even suspected him of being a snitch, because yes, he was the cleanest athlete in there and felt it was unfair that he had to train the way he did and other would use EPO for example. His discipline was crazy, he was very careful with his diet, too careful, some saw him as being paranoid. And his training was crazy, I personally think that the one that 10x400 53 with 30 second can't be true but whatever he was doing, he was puking his guts out at the end of the training. People didn't like how he wasted the career of a guy like El Kaouch who was his pacemaker in the world championschip and won a silver medal when he retired . And most of all, he's hated because he's rich, and the public sees him as being cheap, he's not treated like Aouita who is adored in the country.
You say there's a perception that El G snitched on teammates he suspected or knew were cheating. I know that at least one or two of his training partners were eventually busted. I'm sure he'd know if his training partners were rocket fueled, and he evidently didn't 'snitch' on them when they were together.
The biggest reason I have for finding it hard to believe he was clean is the fact he retired in 2005, just when the first EPO tests were introduced. You'd think he'd want to carry on, if not for the money and winning more medals in themselves, but simply because he must have known that people would suspect him of wanting to avoid the tests by retiring at 29.
Very, very few sportsmen ever 'retire on top', even when they've got millions in the bank. Look at how boxers keep going until they're completely washed up, risking brain damage and the like. Before the 80s, it was common for Olympic champions to retire, such as Snell and Herb Elliott, but that was more because of the financial challenges of being a top athlete at the time, not because they had enough money to retire. They had to get a real job. Ovett and Cram carried on for years when they were clearly no longer even medal contenders. Coe only retired (at 33) because he had a career in politics lined up for him. I find it hard to believe that a Moroccan could choose to retire at 29 when he still had years of multi-million dollars earning potential ahead of him.
I think that you're underestimating how difficult it can be to stay in top shape. Have you done sports as a 30 year old? It's not as easy as 20. Rudisha seems to be done and he's 29. Jeremy Wariner was finished by 30. I also wouldn't be surprised if WvN never makes it back from injury.
It's like that here, Racist vermin dominate here, most of them grumpy old men.
22twos wrote:
This is NOT about race.
Russians and Chinese had state-sponsored doping and tampering. No one bats an eye when we call them dirty, as those are facts.
Certain African nations turn a blind eye to their athletes when it comes to testing (due to lack of funds, incompetence, abating, or a mixture of all) and apologists bring up race.
Exactly. And to add fuel to the fire, certain people push and pay to help the Africans cheat, paying off officials and the like for political reasons, and because these runners are black Africans. The racists are the people defending these cheats.
yeah,they all doped,including el g,and so did willis.nick willis lives and trains in usa,where he has easy access to all the best drugs.
I'd actually bet 100k that every athlete on the top 25 1500m list used PEDs and be very confident I'd win that bet. Anyone who thinks EL G was clean is a naive moron.
A British 1500m runner from El G's generation was invited to Morocco to train with them. He went out there and returned having spent time training with them that they were all doping. This guy was world class and said he could t even begin to be competitive in the training as the recovery day on day was ridiculous. Only one way they could be recovering like that.
I was watching the UFC from Germany tonight, and there happened to be a Moroccan fighter competing. The commentator casually mentioned that the king of Morocco had built a private gym just for that fighter - a very minor unranked guy that only hardcore fans would have heard of.
El G literally could have had anything he wanted when he was competing. Anything.
I don't know if he doped or not, but I will say this: I loved watching him run. He had beautiful form and when he geared up it was something special to watch.
It's the 3:26s and 3:27s, as well as running for a doping coach with doping partners in a country rife with doping positives, that makes him suspicious, not the consistency below 3:30, in the sense that it isn't that hard to run lots of times within 4 seconds of your pr--it's that your pr is absolutely incredible, so that you can be well off your best and still breaking 3:30.
As for the 10x400 at 53-54 with 30 seconds rest, which is what I read, I think it is plausible and it is the reason that he said publicly that he thought he could run 3:24. Think about it. 10x400 is supposed to be close to your mile pace, although on more than 30s rest, and he was able to average 54.8/400 for a 1500, that is, 3 3/4 laps with no rest. He should have been able to break 7:20 for the 3k, given that workout in any case, and likely he would have if he had had better pacing in his attempts.