US men are GARBAGE from 800m to the Marathon

Let me throw some spice on that hot take for you: There are easily 15 countries better than the US at the 800m to 1500m.

Norway, Ingebrkgtsen those 3 may be equal to our top 3 distance runners but there depth has to be better

Japan, have you seen their marathon results! Who cares about middle distance!

Turkey & Qutar, money talks baby

Australia, Gregson, Mctee....Jordy Williamz beat Ches remember that.

Scotland, Kerr and O'Hare are so dominant the non 1500m events don't matter.

Wouldn't be hard to name at least 10 better countries as well

Yes the men are struggling from 800 to marathon. I do not see this changing anytime soon. There has been a fundamental athletic change in U.S. culture. We cannot produce these types of athletes anymore.

Struggling? USA have always being trash from mid to long distance, Just some few lucky wins that they never back up the next year. Sorry but Clayton Murphy is trash, his last personal best was two years ago, a feat he will never repeat.

Dyestat Rumor wrote:

Japan, have you seen their marathon results! Who cares about middle distance!

Japan has a massive number of very good runners, but this really doesn't seem to translate into actual OG/WC medals. I'll take one Rupp over a thousand 2:10 guys who never seem to find the podium.

olyrun wrote:

Yes the men are struggling from 800 to marathon. I do not see this changing anytime soon. There has been a fundamental athletic change in U.S. culture. We cannot produce these types of athletes anymore.

Yeah. If only we could go back to the days when Adam Goucher was far and away our best distance runner...

Garbage OP, Garbage wrote:

OP is garbage. US men had their most dominating performance in history at the last olympics. We far outperformed Kenya or Ethiopia. This guy doesn’t even know about Jager who could run 12:55 or 3:30.

I know about jager, but what's after jager? Nothing. And Jager does not dominate the Steeplechase.

And what does 2016 have to do with now?

What did the men do in the WC? nothing.

It just the honest truth. We don't have anything in the wings.. The Ethiopians are about to dominate 5000/10000m for the next decade with Barega and Yomif. No one is going to do anything against the Kenyans at 1500m, and it is going to be all Korir at 800m.

You care to retort?

Here is the two step program to making the US great at distance running;

1. Make EPO and steroids available over the counter without prescription in the US. So you can walk in to any store and get them.

2. Defund USADA to the point that it is not able to test anyone. Place corrupt workers at all positions in the agency. Maybe make Lance the head.

Works great for the countries that are not garbage, we should try it.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

Jager?

I'm not counting the steeple chase because it is an obstacle race, and it does not transition to the road. Honestly, I will watch the steeple from time to time, but I don't look at it in the same way that I look at regular running events. And from my understanding, that event is dominated by Kenyans.

Wtf? Doesn't transition well to the road? When and how was that ever relevant to the topic? I mean helll, the marathon is an obstacle race in some sense.

Everyone else looks at it the same way. It is an event in between the 800 and marathon. No reason in ignoring it. You just didn't want Jager as I guy to disprove your point. Also, Stanley Kebenei could do some damage in the coming years.

*yawn*

Trolling is for losers, but if you are going to troll you could at least try to be decent at it.

Bad Wigins wrote:

I’m eating tandoori wrote:

US men also are garbage at cricket.

Baseball-crazed US would take to cricket like Russians to hockey and ducks to water, if they took a notion. But they won't because it's an England-type game.

Ha! You know nothing about cricket. The American baseball pitchers wouldn't cut it in cricket. It's a whole different type of arm motion. Bowlers also have to be in somewhat decent shape unlike baseball pitchers who tend to be overweight. Not sure they could handle the run up for every bowl. Also, other than the wicketkeeper the players in the field don't wear baseball mitts they use their bare hands.

Disagree for the 800: Murphy, Berian, Brazier are a nice trio, although Berian has been injured or something lately. Sowinski and Windle provide depth.

The women suddenly have tremendous quality depth in the 800, youth + veterans. USA used to be have athletes hovering around 2, now have 3 or more going 1:58 or better (the "Semenya as Rabbit Effect"?).

Centro is the best tactical 1500 runner ever, but behind him not much.

5k and 10k are both a bust - beyond Chelimo there is nothing.

Marathon - Rupp is a rarity.

Steeple - Jager is a rarity.

Compared to the past few decades, though, the recent medals by Rupp, Jager, Centrowitz and Murphy make this a golden age in a relative sense. The norm for the US is the good old participant ribbon.

really declining wrote:

olyrun wrote:

Yes the men are struggling from 800 to marathon. I do not see this changing anytime soon. There has been a fundamental athletic change in U.S. culture. We cannot produce these types of athletes anymore.

Yeah. If only we could go back to the days when Adam Goucher was far and away our best distance runner...

Or Frank Shorter and Bill Rodgers.

NOP Skeptic wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

I'm not counting the steeple chase because it is an obstacle race, and it does not transition to the road. Honestly, I will watch the steeple from time to time, but I don't look at it in the same way that I look at regular running events. And from my understanding, that event is dominated by Kenyans.

Wtf? Doesn't transition well to the road? When and how was that ever relevant to the topic? I mean helll, the marathon is an obstacle race in some sense.

Everyone else looks at it the same way. It is an event in between the 800 and marathon. No reason in ignoring it. You just didn't want Jager as I guy to disprove your point. Also, Stanley Kebenei could do some damage in the coming years.

Dude. 5000m/10000m runners usually transition to the road and do marathons. 1500m runners move up to 5000m and 800m runners move up to 1500m.

steeplechase is more of a specialty running event. It's great, and takes a lot of strength and endurance, but runners don't really graduate to anything else.

notrump wrote:

Disagree for the 800: Murphy, Berian, Brazier are a nice trio, although Berian has been injured or something lately. Sowinski and Windle provide depth.

The women suddenly have tremendous quality depth in the 800, youth + veterans. USA used to be have athletes hovering around 2, now have 3 or more going 1:58 or better (the "Semenya as Rabbit Effect"?).

Centro is the best tactical 1500 runner ever, but behind him not much.

5k and 10k are both a bust - beyond Chelimo there is nothing.

Marathon - Rupp is a rarity.

Steeple - Jager is a rarity.

Compared to the past few decades, though, the recent medals by Rupp, Jager, Centrowitz and Murphy make this a golden age in a relative sense. The norm for the US is the good old participant ribbon.

good analysis.

In the last two years the top performances by distance:

800m:

Isaiah Harris 1:44

Clayton Murphy 1:43

1500m:

Mathew Centrowitz 3:33

Mathew Centrowitz 3:35

3000m:

Paul Chelimo 7:34

Paul Chelimo 7:31

5000m:

Paul Chelimo: 13:09

Paul Chelimo 13:10

10000m:

Shadrack Kipchirchir 27:39

Shadrack Kipchirchir 27:07

Half marathon:

Leonard Korir 59:52

Galen Rupp 59:47

Marathon:

Galen Rupp 2:06:07

Galen Rupp 2:09:20

Now these are the number one times over the last two years. How do we improve the depth in men's distance running? First is by depth. That is increase the amount of males running 100+ miles a week. It is like throwing a egg at the wall chances are it will break. But if you throw 100 eggs at the wall once a couple will survive. Second, is the mental attitude in America. Most Americans are weak minded. How to change this? The economic collapse that will happen to America in the next few years will do a great deal to improve the mental strength in America. This economic collapse will also have a second great side effect, that is reducing the amount the average American weighs.

In the mean time here are a few suggestions to make America great again in distance running:

1. Make fat shaming socially acceptable again.

2. Defund all school buses. Make kids bike, walk or run to and from school.

3. Parents need to stop being overprotective. Helicopter parenting is ruining America. Kick your kids out the door, and let them run around ride their bike unsupervised.

4. Only give government welfare to people that are underweight. Fat people should not get assistance. Unless you are under the BMI of 18.5 no welfare for you.

5. Government needs to stop subsidizing all food. You can't claim you're trying to fight obesity while simultaneously funding all these junk foods.

6. Add the Ekiden and half marathon distance to collegiate program. Add the Ekiden to high school programs too but more importantly the 5k/10k.

Last note:

We should always keep in mind, compared to what? Compared to the east Africans who are doped to the gills? Yeah America is that great at distance running. Compare today's current crop of distance runners to the crop of US distance runners in the 90s. By that standard America is doing great. America (not at the same numbers) is back to where it was in the 70s/80s.

I'm guessing you weren't around for the 1990s. We are in the golden age of US distance running.

It's our culture and economics, the average college grad makes more than all but 1% of "professional" runners. It's also too costly to put off your career now days for 4-5 years. Employers prefer the young hungry college grad right out of school over a 26 year old who spent 5 years after college running. They don't see it as a professional sport they see it more like a ski bum, beach bum etc.

Researchers analyzed salaries of 145,000 entry-level positions from more than 700 organizations in the United States. A key finding: 2017 college grads will make on average $49,785 annually—3 percent more than the average for 2016 graduates ($48,270).May 12, 2017

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed!

In fairness I had the thought that IAAF should consider dropping the 10,000 as an Olympic/WC event. This race is so rarely ever run at the elite level anymore, and no one makes a serious effort at running the race fast. Now a days anyone (US or international) who is fast enough to threaten 27 minutes should and typically does move up straight to the marathon.

More like "same as it ever was". Since the end of the running boom in the 80s and the influx of all the E. Africans, the US has only had a few standouts every few years in 800 to marathon. Lagat and Webb were great with Lagat having better longevity and international medals. Ritz, Teg and Solinsky broke time barriers. Centro got big championship medals. Meb and Hall were great in the marathon. And then there is Rupp. Beyond that, not much else to write home about over the past 30 years.