Road Racing and Training Thread - Week ending 7/1/2018

AJ - Nice summer volume.

Unfortunately not much of a step forward this week in terms of consistent running, but was able to progress into some faster stuff, for better or worse.

Mon: 5 miles

Tues: 7 miles total: 2 warmup, 3 x mile with 90s rest (5:27, 5:21, 5:24), 3 cooldown

Wed: Off

Thurs: 8 miles, averaged 6:30 pace in the heat

Fri: 5 miles with 3x30sec hill sprints, excessive heat/humidity once again

Sat: 0

Sun: 5 miles

Total: 30 miles

Happy to report a good workout on Tuesday, which is the first run I've timed since returning to running a few weeks ago. My aim was to run the miles at tempo pace, for which I think Daniel's is a reliable reference point. Unfortunately, all throughout college my team would run Daniels style workouts based around goal times that were always just a hare out of reach, so I've developed a habit of trying to push threshold work a little too fast, which was likely the case on Tuesday.

The rest of the week was filled with long commutes, a heat wave, and catching up with old friends which was draining and cost me some consistency. I'm not phased however and am excited that all running is starting to feel more fluid and fun. Tentatively planning to enter a road race (5k?) this month to get a sense of where I'm at and to develop more focused goals going forward.

PutoMiudo - Congrats on the PR. It's always a great to walk away from a season knowing that you went completely to the well in a final race. Enjoy your recovery!

Gordon Tremeshko - Seems like everything is in it's right place

Tall Dark Roast - Nice week. Based on the sensory data from your recent race, I have a feeling that your performances will begin dropping with the temperature this fall.

Smoove - Not bad for a down week. Enjoy Illinois, and perhaps the Elmhurst 4 miler?

Allen - Great Thursday workout

Runrince- Sorry to hear about that pain, hopefully it ends up being a minor setback. If you cross train diligently it might end up being a beneficial thing in the long run.

Sub 6 - Nice week, and best of luck with the travels

Coach Jeff- Congrats on the solid TT performance

OR - nice volume, and best of luck in the 5k

Stat - spot on about sensory data in the heat. Overdoing workouts in July and August can take very extended tolls.

Jewbacca - That XC sounds like a great event. Can be harder to find those in the age of commercialized races.

angryjohnny - All around impressive weeks. 3k TT is an encouraging early result.

OR: A lot of quality in difficult weather.

stat: Those 400s are pretty consistent especially in the tough weather.

jewbacca: Great race and race report, too. Sounds like you'll take him down sooner or later!

Still Improving: Yeah, acclimation and avoidance! I console myself thinking about how fast I'll be running at a given HR once the weather cools off.

AJ: Have fun with the vaporfys!

krishna: Those are some tough workouts in tough conditions! If you use Strava to log your running, consider joining the thread Strava club here:

https://www.strava.com/clubs/326247

Krishna - yes, the Elmhurst 4 miler. My wife's family loves not too far away from there. This will be my third time racing there.

Is Mrs. Smoove also running the four-miler? Best of success to you...

Puto - congrats on the Pr. Sorry about Portugal. I was pulling for them.

GT - those 800s are a good sign for sub3.

RRR - awesome miles. Hope the a$$ feels better.

TDR - nice steady build

OR - thanks! Not many around here are tough enough to handle 80 mpw in the summer. ;). Good job mixing it up with the surges. Here’s your next challenge: 8 x mile in 6:00 flat w 1 min rest.

Jewbacca - strong looking week. Good race report.

Smoove - Nice k’s. Stay healthy.

Allen - sub 40 should be no problem with this miles. U. Got. This.

Sub 6 - very jealous of that Monday run. I’m months away from the kind of weather that will allow me to find the groove and crank.

Coach Jeff - keep grinding amigo.

Krishna - welcome. We can always use more daniels guys around here to help keep the Hansons/canova chuckleheads at bay.

angryjohnny wrote:

OR - Here’s your next challenge: 8 x mile in 6:00 flat w 1 min rest.

AJ - Don't kill our Virginia friend! Temps in the mid-90s, humidity above 80% ... OR needs to find some shade and a cold drink!

We're getting a taste of that Southern weather up here in the Northeast, and I remember now what it's like. Incredible that anyone trains in this. At least we had a nice breeze here this morning.

I was plugging some numbers into Daniels' VDOT "heat" calculator, and it's amazing how much of a slow-down it predicts in 90-degree heat. And the calculator doesn't include a humidity factor, so I suppose entering the 110-degree "heat index" would be more accurate?!

Anyway, the conditions are supposed to moderate a bit for our July 4th 10K ... about 80 degrees, 60 percent humidity. But it's a 9 a.m. start, so full sun and little shade on the course. According to the Daniels calculator, in those conditions a 40:30 finish would be equivalent to about 39-flat.

Caution is advised for everyone racing this week. I think I have mentioned that I nearly died from heat stroke after a 10K years ago. I really felt no symptoms prior to it, just normal race discomfort. Be smart, friends!

Apologies for not getting more comments out to you folks. I'm running way behind schedule this morning. Saw a lot of impressive training reports, though!

Moved up to 6 miles last week. Knees still sore.

T- 3 miles of 200's @ around T pace

S- 3 miles of 200's @ around T pace

8xmile 6flat shouldnt be that hard for OR. Heck in spring I did that with 5:54 average and OR has a much bigger aerobic base.

def a nice workout.

runrincerepeat wrote:

8xmile 6flat shouldnt be that hard for OR.

I suppose you're right. Sometimes I forget how fast he runs! Heck, he closes his long runs with 8 miles close to that pace. Of course, it would kill me ... I barely managed that pace for 3xmile last week ... with five-minute breaks! Aaargh.

A 2:48 marathon predicts a threshold pace of 6:04, so 6:00 flat would be pushing it in this heat. In cooler weather 6:00 flat would be no problem for mile repeats.

Good comments, guys.

Yes, the heat and humidity are really building here. We were in a heat advisory all weekend, and it has been extended. This morning’s run was pretty brutal. I cut it short, in view of the race. Went 8.33 at 6:48 overall in the hills. Very bright sun. That run kicked my can. An 84 + 74 = 158, but the sun was perhaps the worst part of it. Wednesday (race day) is looking similar.

Will be resting until then.

All the best, guys, and be safe in your running.

OR, just focus on the heat adaptation that you'll get from these days and how hat will prepare you even better for Richmond, especially if it turns out to be unseasonably warm.

Smoove wrote:

OR, just focus on the heat adaptation that you'll get from these days and how hat will prepare you even better for Richmond, especially if it turns out to be unseasonably warm.

Yes, my friend, that is exactly what I need to do. This is good training, both physical and mental.

putomiudo - Congrats on the PR and thanks for getting the thread started

Gordon - Good to see you putting up consistent training again. Keep it up

TDR - Nice 5k. Whens the next race?

Smoove - Good luck with the 4 mi. Going to check out the Chicago course while you're in the area?

Allen - Great cut down miles and also the alternation workout. Rip it at the 10k

RRR - Really bummed about injury. Get well soon

sub6 - consistent week

Coach Jeff - Nice 5k given the conditions

OR - I like the hill surges and adding in an extra climb saturday

stat - I like the ladder fartlek.

jewbacca - great job on the 2mi XC race. They just need to throw in a track one to complete the surfaces.

Still Improving - Seems like the heat got everyone this week

AJ - Another bomb week of training. Hope weather cooperates for your 5k. I can't imagine running a 5k in moon shoes. Might as well break out compression socks too for the complete triathlete look.

Krishna - solid week

Pappy - Always good to see you getting in some runs.

M 23, 6' 150#

M: 5 w/ 30", 2x23", 3x15" @ 800 effort cutting down. rest was as needed

T: strength (jumps/crawling, power clean & jerk, pull ups/ 1L RDL, DB press from split/ core)

W: 4 w/ 4x5" flat accels, 4x10" flat sprints

T: 8.5 w/ 800 (1st), 3000 (5th) & 4x400 (1st)

F: biking plus strength (jumps, power snatch, back squat, multi-lunge/pull ups/dips)

S: 12.5 super hot & humid. 80degF with 75 degF dew point at 7 am alread

S: 4 plus yoga, was going to go longer but felt crappy as it was still really humid

Race Reports

1 mile last week Results finally posted and I ran 4:38 which means my last lap was 66 and I put 4 sec into 2nd place the last 500m. Just need to put together four 66/67s and I can PR, haha

800 low 80s & a slight wind on the home stretch. Pretty good 800 weather. Found out before the race that the guy who took me to the line 2 weeks ago was dropping down to the 400 today and not racing the 800. 2 weeks ago 61 mid felt pretty comfortable for the first 400 so I wanted to get out faster today. Fortunately there was a 400 guy stepping up today who took things out quickly. He started to drag after 200 so I took over at 250 and began the long, lonely drive for home. I heard 59...60... coming through 400 so I was probably 60 low. Just tried to power through tieing up the last 400 although I'm sure it wasn't the quickest. Hopefully I at least ran a bit quicker than the previous 2:05 but its tough to run the last lap solo. Had that lovely feeling where there's just not enough oxygen in the world and you can't speak full sentences for a couple of minutes post race.

3000 30min after the 800. A 2:31 and 2:34 marathoner showed up for some speed work which was fun. The guy who won in 9:30 2 weeks ago drove straight to the meet after getting off a plane and got on the line with essentially zero warm up. He got out solo in ~74 and I was second in the chase pack of 4 in 76. Came through 800 in 2:34 now leading the chase pack and we were slowly pulling the leader back. We made contact with the leader a bit after 1200 and at 1500 the 2:34 guy moved to the lead. Came through 1600 in 5:08 3rd in a pack of 5. At 2k the 2:31 guy moved to the lead, hat and stache in full force, and started to pick things up. I couldn't hang on and slowly got shuffled back so 400 to go I was in 5th place. I ran 9:43ish for 5th place. Overall was 1. 2:31 guy in 9:23 so he ran a nice negative split, 2. guy fresh off plane, 3. 2:34 guy, 4. guy I don't know, 5. me I think I'm in shape to run my 9:24 PR but I struggled with the mental differences between the 800 and 3000. After trying to really attack the 800 I told myself to get out at a consistent grind in the 3000. The problem is that only works for the first 2k and the last 1k I didn't fully switch to attack mode. Maybe I'm just not in shape to run a 3k PR after an 800 or its a combination of physical and mental. I just thought I was in shape to PR and didn't come close. Oh well, I'll just have to make sure to run a 3k fresh next year.

4x400 10 min after the 3k. Ran in a 4x400 of people who all just ran the 3k and our anchor had run the 800 too. I ran 2nd leg in 59.8 and overall our 4x400 was 4:16 for 1st place. We were in 2nd place by 10+seconds as the leader ran a 53.4. Their team had a 7-8 year old as the 3rd leg and we were able to claw back the lead (our 3rd leg said passing the 7 year old on the homestretch felt horrible, haha). Happy to clock sub 60 as this is now 8 straight years of getting a sub 60 400 (*some of these sub 60s happened in 800s as I didn't run a 400 that year but I'm counting them)

My task this upcoming weekend is an interesting one. 5k/ 1mile road race double. The 5k is at 8am and the top 15 from the 5k qualify for the 1mile at 8pm. The 1mile is giving out some significant prizes in gas station gift cards so my only concern for the 5k is to qualify for the 1mile. This is a first time event so I don't know how good of people will show up. Any advice is welcome.

pewow wrote:

AJ - Another bomb week of training. Hope weather cooperates for your 5k. I can't imagine running a 5k in moon shoes. Might as well break out compression socks too for the complete triathlete look.

Great idea. You got some lululemon yoga pants I can borrow for the cool down?

I have the footage!

https://imgur.com/a/JpVuzeR

"LT workouts need to teach the body to use lactate as fuel."

A comment along these lines was made last week, and I've been thinking it over all week. Canova and Magness (and slo-twitch, among others) are using alternations as part of LT adaptation.

In regards to marathon training: Lactate levels remain virtually constant from start to finish. Why would teaching the body to use lactate as fuel be a beneficial to the marathon? Unless you are climbing hills or covering surges, your body shouldn't be producing excess lactate during the race.

The only way I see this making sense for an amateur is if my fundamental understanding about anaerobic threshold training is wrong. I view LT training as simply stimulating the body to increase its aerobic capacity. As an illustration, suppose that (and I'm choosing totally arbitrary numbers here) LT pace requires 1000 units of energy, aerobic respiration can provide 800 units and anaerobic supplies the other 200 units. By training my LT, I can increase my aerobic capacity to 1000 energy units, but the anaerobic side remains roughly the same at 200. (In reality, I assume the body gains some ability to buffer anaerobic waste products, so the anaerobic capacity increases marginally. But I view the aerobic side as the primary mover.) The relatively unchanged anaerobic output is my explanation for why lactate concentration is constant (usually 4 mmol, if I'm not mistaken) as LT pace improves.

We know that aerobic capacity is increased because mitochondrial density increases from training. In this case, the benefit of LT training is obvious because the increased aerobic capacity will directly impact marathon pace.

Or is my assumption about marginal anaerobic improvement false? Does teaching the body to consume lactate also increase the anaerobic engine substantially? Maybe it can increase from its 200 unit capacity to 300 or 400? In this case the body's consumption of its own waste products would have to explain constant lactate concentration as LT pace improves.

Clear as mud what I'm asking?