California Dreaming wrote:
Mary, Decker, Steve Scott, Ryan Hall
Steve Scott was a distance runner? Mary Decker was clean?
California Dreaming wrote:
Mary, Decker, Steve Scott, Ryan Hall
Steve Scott was a distance runner? Mary Decker was clean?
You asked wrote:
http://www.drmirkin.com/histories-and-mysteries/houston-mctear-a-natural-runner.htmlGabe Mirkin M.D. wrote:
In 1968 my six-year-old son, Gene, started to train for distance racing under the tutelage of coach Brooks Johnson, who has trained many Olympic champions. By age nine, he had set world records in age group distances from the half mile to two miles and had run a mile in 4 minutes and 54 seconds. He won age group races regularly and was written up in Sports Illustrated, the Washington Post and other publications. At age nine, he ran in an age-group mile race at Georgetown University's track against Lester Lyles, who was his age but more than a head taller than he was. Gene led for the first three laps with Lester right behind him. Then with 200 yards to go, Lester blew by him and won by a huge margin. That same year Lester won both the 100 yard dash and the mile at the National Age Group Championships against the best age groupers in the country. He went on to be a 1984 All American football player and four-year All Atlantic Coast Conference player at the University of Virginia. He played cornerback and strong safety for six years in the National Football League.
Lester was likely more physically mature (black kids do tend to mature earlier than whites, that isn't even arguable). Being that good at 11 doesn't mean you'll even be able to break 4:30 as you grow and develop.
We are slow wrote:
I think this is proof positive there are a lot of talented runners who never end up doing it as they are better at other sports.
Yeah, track is sort of a sport of "last resort" unless you're from Kenya.
It could also show that almost anyone (male) can run a 5-minute mile by teenage years if they are trained from youth (like Polgars in chess). And assuming natural progressions, likely 4 minutes by young adulthood. Humans are largely not exploiting all their potential, running-wise.
No, not almost anyone can run a 5 minute mile by their teens if they train from youth - at least in the US. By the time kids hit their teens, a significant percentage will simply be too big / muscular no matter what kind of running they're doing.
American Nightmare wrote:
California Dreaming wrote:
Mary, Decker, Steve Scott, Ryan Hall
Steve Scott was a distance runner? Mary Decker was clean?
You think most E. Africans are clean? Their domination started EXACTLY when EPO hit, as Dr. Rosa ran to Kenya where he could experiment and basically get ANY DRUG over the counter, which you can do in most third world countries. Idiotic Westerners, especially Americans and Canadians, are the most idiotic and naive when it comes to this fact.
As for some Californians doing well as runners... Steve Scott's 5K PR is better than a lot of people who consider themselves pure distance runners...and yes, milers are distance runners.
Stop trying to dodge your mistake. lol
Decker was clean most of her career. Her National Record in the 800 was beaten by a runner who was caught using drugs but who was let go with the "tainted meat" excuse. Maybe she was having sex with boxer Canelo Alvarez.
Scott held the US Mile Record for 25 years. Johnny Gray has held the US Record in the 800m for 33 years (yeah, middle distance, we know). Not bad for guys coming from a state where people can pick and choose from a lot of activities due to the mild winters, hence a lot of people drifting away from track. Of course, with taxpayers now fleeing the mensheviks and revanchists running the State Assembly and running the state into the ground, you can count on very little to zero athletes from CA making it on any level past HS.
Kinda like Meb wrote:
@We are slow wrote:
"It could also show that almost anyone (male) can run a 5-minute mile by teenage years if they are trained from youth (like Polgars in chess). And assuming natural progressions, likely 4 minutes by young adulthood."
Uh yeah, it doesn't show that at all...
I was never involved in any organized sports or training. I did ride my bicycle a lot from the age of 10 onward. Likewise, Meb probably wasn't involved in any childhood training while growing up in Eritrea but like myself was likely physically active in other ways but not involved in any organized, prolonged training program. So Meb's 5:18 and my 5:24 in 7th grade indicators of our raw talent. I'm a lot more fast twitch than Meb, as indicated by 1:34 660y in 8th grade untrained and 11.8 100m in my early 20s while training with marathoners and running 70-80 miles per week.
Age group runners like the Assumas often dominate in high school then tend to fizzle out in college and rarely progress beyond college level. Recent studies have shown age group athletes who specialize early rarely make it to the top levels of any sport. A study of elite soccer players also shows that the ones who questioned their training and were branded "head cases" for doing so, are the ones most likely to ascend to an elite level. Name any of the top California distance studs who did anything of note beyond high school, never mind world class level. The only one who comes to mind is Thom Hunt, but he knew how to train intelligently and didn't burn himself out.
Frank Assuma actually ran well in college, he became a sub four minute miler, etc. He chose to go to UC Riverside to stay close to home.
MOST American HS hotshots don't do much beyond HS. Over the last 40 years Midwesterners crash and burn more than the West Coast guys for the most part. In fact they stall or crash and burn more than everyone else. Rupp and Centro are from the West and East Coasts respectively, and they're our medalists of note.
DetroitNative wrote:
Kinda like Meb wrote:
I was never involved in any organized sports or training. I did ride my bicycle a lot from the age of 10 onward. Likewise, Meb probably wasn't involved in any childhood training while growing up in Eritrea but like myself was likely physically active in other ways but not involved in any organized, prolonged training program. So Meb's 5:18 and my 5:24 in 7th grade indicators of our raw talent. I'm a lot more fast twitch than Meb, as indicated by 1:34 660y in 8th grade untrained and 11.8 100m in my early 20s while training with marathoners and running 70-80 miles per week.
Age group runners like the Assumas often dominate in high school then tend to fizzle out in college and rarely progress beyond college level. Recent studies have shown age group athletes who specialize early rarely make it to the top levels of any sport. A study of elite soccer players also shows that the ones who questioned their training and were branded "head cases" for doing so, are the ones most likely to ascend to an elite level. Name any of the top California distance studs who did anything of note beyond high school, never mind world class level. The only one who comes to mind is Thom Hunt, but he knew how to train intelligently and didn't burn himself out.
Frank Assuma actually ran well in college, he became a sub four minute miler, etc. He chose to go to UC Riverside to stay close to home.
MOST American HS hotshots don't do much beyond HS. Over the last 40 years Midwesterners crash and burn more than the West Coast guys for the most part. In fact they stall or crash and burn more than everyone else. Rupp and Centro are from the West and East Coasts respectively, and they're our medalists of note.
Certainly your “in fact” is just your uninformed opinion. Please provide some sort of insight other than your ridiculous claims. Runners like Kennedy, Ritz, Solinski, SFH, and many more were all mid-westerners, well within the last 40 years, and HS hotshots. They did quite well for themselves. Your blanket insult to midwesterners is cheap. I’ll bet if you did any sort of research you would find that “burn out” rates are similar throughout the entire U.S.
More to the point is that youth successs doesn’t always lead to future success. But that isn’t always due to burnout either. Injury (not related to overtraining), family and life issues, job/income, and so many other factors can keep athletes from reaching the pinnacle of their sports.
If you have a lot of speed, have not bulked up yet, like most kids, and are trained for distance, that aerobic capacity for at least the mile is there to be developed. Once the muscle is developed, there's not much mile capacity left. Plenty of cornerback/wide receiver types could have been developed instead for the 800 and mile.
Steve Scott ran a lot of miles and a lot of road races, so there is no reason whatsoever that he couldn't run a very good 5000m, better even than Centro and Webb ran (13:20/13:10).
Two points about things that are hard to believe......
1. O.J. ran a 4:56 mile when he was 12. He then became a sprinter, played football and killed a couple people.
Bob Kennedy and Dathan Ritzenhein are from the midwest #noflameout
The main reason why most child /HS prodigies do not "pan out" is because virtually NOBODY "pans out" and becomes a Galen Rupp. It has nothing to do with previous training or not training.
In fact, child/HS prodigies have a MUCH higher chance is my guess. There are many example of youth/HS runners who have done pretty well. Expecting all of them to do well is a ridiculous premise.
dkfjl;kfg wrote:
The main reason why most child /HS prodigies do not "pan out" is because virtually NOBODY "pans out" and becomes a Galen Rupp. It has nothing to do with previous training or not training.
In fact, child/HS prodigies have a MUCH higher chance is my guess. There are many example of youth/HS runners who have done pretty well. Expecting all of them to do well is a ridiculous premise.
+1
rojo wrote:
Being Baltimore proud...
Where did this come from?
GrungeBear wrote:
American Nightmare wrote:
Steve Scott was a distance runner? Mary Decker was clean?
You think most E. Africans are clean? Their domination started EXACTLY when EPO hit, as Dr. Rosa ran to Kenya where he could experiment and basically get ANY DRUG over the counter, which you can do in most third world countries. Idiotic Westerners, especially Americans and Canadians, are the most idiotic and naive when it comes to this fact.
As for some Californians doing well as runners... Steve Scott's 5K PR is better than a lot of people who consider themselves pure distance runners...and yes, milers are distance runners.
Stop trying to dodge your mistake. lol
Decker was clean most of her career. Her National Record in the 800 was beaten by a runner who was caught using drugs but who was let go with the "tainted meat" excuse. Maybe she was having sex with boxer Canelo Alvarez.
Scott held the US Mile Record for 25 years. Johnny Gray has held the US Record in the 800m for 33 years (yeah, middle distance, we know). Not bad for guys coming from a state where people can pick and choose from a lot of activities due to the mild winters, hence a lot of people drifting away from track. Of course, with taxpayers now fleeing the mensheviks and revanchists running the State Assembly and running the state into the ground, you can count on very little to zero athletes from CA making it on any level past HS.
I'm calling BS on this. The East Africans were dominant long before EPO hit the scene. Remember UTEP in the late 70s through mid 80s? Remember Kip Keino? Filbert Bayi? Mike Boit?
When you compare young Kenyan distance athletes to their American counterparts the Kenyans rise to higher levels in much greater numbers and percentages. Part of that may be genetic. Part of that may be they few alternatives so they stick with it. A big part of it is they have a better handle on how to train properly.
Go back a little further sonny. Abebe Bikila - Mamo Wolde - Miruts Yifter - Suleiman Nyambui. Good depth behind those greats in Eastern Africa during those years. Don't forget the Kenyan 4x4 squad who took Olympic Silver - the squad David Rudisha's father was on.
my brother found this thread for me. Brings back great memories.The reason is I was the victim of Lester Lyle's great talent. He out dueled me in Pasadena as an 11 year old in the mile run. With 300 yards to go I made a move on Lester to pass him on the back straight. He held me off. He did it with ease and I just tucked in behind him and finished second. That one race was my greatest regret. I should have kept pushing as hard as I could for the duration of the race; after all, it was the nationals! However, he outran me and that was that.
Funny note: on the awards podium later that day Lester bowed to allow the presenter to place the gold medal around his neck. However, his afro was so big that they were unable to get it over his head so they simply handed him the medal. Sign of the times, right?
I watched Lester play pro football and I always wondered if that could be the same guy who beat me in the Nationals back in '73. It was him...what an athlete!
ps...side note: I did win the AAU National Cross Country championships that year.
I started running at age 10. Rarely ran over 20 miles per week. I did love to run hard. At age 12, I ran a 5:06. After that, I seemed to have one injury after another and ran a best of 4:48 my freshman year(age 15), then burned out and quit my sophomore year. 30 years later I can't break 7:30 lol. I wished that I would never have quit and just accepted what I was given.