Shitara: always does a 25-30 km tempo run three days before a marathon - Citius

HRE wrote:

Interesting. Thanks. Where did you find this?

I'm involved every year in the organisation of Hakone Ekiden, i know a lot of coaches and i have some insight in his training.

What surprises me is that many Jap. elites do 90% of their training in small parks, on loops which measure just 1200-2000m...so essentially running in circles...mostly hard surfaces, as well.

How far is the loop around Emperor's Palace in Tokyo ? Seko used to train there. Do many elites train there these days?

Okay. Thanks again.

Ghost1 wrote:

What surprises me is that many Jap. elites do 90% of their training in small parks, on loops which measure just 1200-2000m...so essentially running in circles...mostly hard surfaces, as well.

How far is the loop around Emperor's Palace in Tokyo ? Seko used to train there. Do many elites train there these days?

I think I recall reading that the path around the Palace in Tokyo was 1500 meters. I don't think it's just Japanese who train in small circles though. I remember reading in Track and Field News that Jazy used to do most of his training on a 2200 meter path in a forest near Paris and an old Sports Illustrated article had Roelants on a similar path in Belgium.

Shitara's training == Hanson's? wrote:

YMMV wrote:

What's extra crazy is that 30K is the longest run he does, and it's a tempo?!?!

Hanson's specs 18 miles as the longest. More quality than quantity. Not crazy at all. Do we have any more details on the whole of his training? I find myself asking for more information here.

because all of those Hanson's guys are really running fast marathons.....

they aren't relevant, as much as I like them.

stop mentioning them in the same breath as a thread about 2:06 marathoners - thanks

HRE wrote:

Ghost1 wrote:

What surprises me is that many Jap. elites do 90% of their training in small parks, on loops which measure just 1200-2000m...so essentially running in circles...mostly hard surfaces, as well.

How far is the loop around Emperor's Palace in Tokyo ? Seko used to train there. Do many elites train there these days?

I think I recall reading that the path around the Palace in Tokyo was 1500 meters. I don't think it's just Japanese who train in small circles though. I remember reading in Track and Field News that Jazy used to do most of his training on a 2200 meter path in a forest near Paris and an old Sports Illustrated article had Roelants on a similar path in Belgium.

I've trained there a couple times, the loop has around 6 km, maybe a little less

I remember doing a ~ 15 km tempo there @ like 3:45 min/km , uploaded in Strava and was like not even in the top 5000 or so...

I've run it many times (and it's very popular/famous). It's 5km around the Palace.

rfmaioral wrote:

HRE wrote:

I think I recall reading that the path around the Palace in Tokyo was 1500 meters. I don't think it's just Japanese who train in small circles though. I remember reading in Track and Field News that Jazy used to do most of his training on a 2200 meter path in a forest near Paris and an old Sports Illustrated article had Roelants on a similar path in Belgium.

I've trained there a couple times, the loop has around 6 km, maybe a little less

I remember doing a ~ 15 km tempo there @ like 3:45 min/km , uploaded in Strava and was like not even in the top 5000 or so...

ijjj wrote:

"Tiny Island"?

How ignorant is the author. Japan has close to 130 million in population, top 10 in the world.

...Apparently no one explained to you the difference between demographic numbers and geographical area.

Japan is indeed a tiny island.

And, for interest's sake, Japan will lose a quarter of its population by 2050.

Ghost1 wrote:

What surprises me is that many Jap. elites do 90% of their training in small parks, on loops which measure just 1200-2000m...so essentially running in circles...mostly hard surfaces, as well.

How far is the loop around Emperor's Palace in Tokyo ? Seko used to train there. Do many elites train there these days?

It's true that many elites train on hard surfaces in Japan, however, some like Shitara understand and have the possibility to run some trails in the mountains(Niseko). Also he uses the track a few times. He's been told he has to use the trails more with his monster mileage, to enhance his longetivity. However, he's seen like a God now and will go fully professional and be able to train 100% properly.

I'm on tonight, you know my hips don't lie

And I'm starting to feel it's right

All the attraction, the tension

Don't you see baby, this is perfection

Shitara, Shitara

Shitara also seems to race frequently. One of the commentators during the Tokyo Marathon coverage said he'd raced four times since the start of the year (~ 2 months).

At around 2:22:00 of this video, you can seen him finishing the 13 km anchor leg to win the men's national ekiden in January, an annual event in which the 47 prefectures in Japan compete:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-4w9unKIxY

Saitama Prefecture (just outside Tokyo), where Shitara's from, won it this year.

Taro wrote:

Saitama Prefecture (just outside Tokyo), where Shitara's from, won it this year.

Kawauchi lives/trains there too. Must be the drinking water

HRE wrote:

ijjj wrote:

"Tiny Island"?

How ignorant is the author. Japan has close to 130 million in population, top 10 in the world.

But the actual country is quite small even if it has loads of people living in it.

By what definition? Tool. Stay in the box. Tool.

I could never quite understand the Japanese "pain-face" vs. the poker-face of the Africans, but now I think it has to do with the Ekidens: tons of spectators and your teammates depending on you, you need to demonstrate with your expression that you are giving a full effort. I don't know if Yuki does Ekidens much, but he always look to be in agony after 20K.

YMMV wrote:

I could never quite understand the Japanese "pain-face" vs. the poker-face of the Africans, but now I think it has to do with the Ekidens: tons of spectators and your teammates depending on you, you need to demonstrate with your expression that you are giving a full effort. I don't know if Yuki does Ekidens much, but he always look to be in agony after 20K.

I think it's derived from something deeper in the culture. Japanese worship effort and persistence, whereas other cultures worship talent.

So Japanese runners want show that they've tried their hardest, while runners from other cultures tend to want to make it look easy to show they're more talented than the others, i.e., not show weakness.

To Japanese, strength lies in effort. To others, strength lies in innate talent.

Shitara is a forefoot or midfoot striker. Most of the top guys in Japan seem to run that way.

I get the impression, though, that quite a few Jap. female elites are heel strikers.

Are most Japanese elite runners done by age 30, and can the corporate runners keep their jobs ?

The reason I ask is because Japanese elites peak in early twenties ...their legs might be shot by age 27-30 because of all the mileage on roads. Are there any trails around Tokyo ?

I found grass trails by the river in Fukuoka, but few runners use them.

Japanese seem to prefer km marked courses on roads or in parks, where the coaches can give them precise feedback about their pace. Perfectly calibrated.

Ghost1 wrote:

The reason I ask is because Japanese elites peak in early twenties ...their legs might be shot by age 27-30 because of all the mileage on roads. Are there any trails around Tokyo ?

I found grass trails by the river in Fukuoka, but few runners use them.

Japanese seem to prefer km marked courses on roads or in parks, where the coaches can give them precise feedback about their pace. Perfectly calibrated.

I've seen a number of corporate runners in their early to mid-30s competing in ekiden races, but I don't know whether they stay with their companies after their running career ends. I imagine they can if they choose to do so, given the loyalty that Japanese companies generally show to their regular employees.

I don't know of any trails of any significant length around Tokyo proper. I live in Kanagawa Prefecture, adjacent to Tokyo, and there are quite a few dirt trails next to the rivers here, even next to small tributaries. But you're right about runners not using them. Even when there's a dirt path next to a paved riverside bike path, nearly all Japanese runners I've seen will run on the paved path rather than on the dirt. Then again, these probably aren't high-mileage, competitive runners, so they're not so concerned about repetitive impact.

Ghost1 wrote:

Shitara is a forefoot or midfoot striker. Most of the top guys in Japan seem to run that way.

That may be true at the moment, but Toshinari Takaoka, who until very recently held the NRs in the 10,000 and marathon, was clearly a heel striker, as was '91 Worlds marathon winner Hiromi Taniguchi.