CAN KENENISA BEKELE BREAK KOMENS 3000M RECORD?

3:46 Mile

i think NativeSon is saying that bekele is a guy who is unbeatable at anything over 8K. i agree with that. he has shown clear mortality to at least el g at 5K. sure, he got the record but he was more paced - not raced - to that. i'm sure el g and bekele could both run similar WR times at 5K - maybe it's just experience that give el g the advantage in "real" races. and 4K? he is UNBEATEN (i wouldn't say unbeatable), but i think if a guy like el g did it, bekele would be in a world of trouble. he's unbeatable at 12K but, if 4K included some better competition, i think he would be beatable at that distance. all conjecture, of course, considering he's beaten everyone willing to run xc and challenge him.

i would question bekele's ability to run much faster than 7:25sh. maybe i'm wrong but it's a bit of a drop from his wheelhouse distances (5K-10K) and i think bekele lacks that little bit of killer speed (which el g does have) which would put him over the hump. obviously, i think a stacked, well paced race as someone suggested above might produce a record. but i don't think all of those guys would be willing to run because most of them know they aren't capable of challenging the WR. it would be a race set up for el g.

I dunno man, he ran 53.X to close the 10k in athens, those are pretty good wheels. This may be a crazy statement, but has Bekele in anything been a great front runner? Maybe in XC (have not seen the races) but in most of his great 5k/10k's, they were rabbited and were time trials, then at 5k in a couple real races, loses to El G and Eluid in WC, then loses to Hicham in 5k at athens.

So it does seem he is beatable under 8k, but i dont think its from lack of pure speed, but experience and being able to front run.

i believe komen ran his 7:20 a few months after his 20th birthday? pretty young if you ask me.

he basically front-runs in xc. it might be experience at 5K, but i don't know many (any?) 5K-10K guys who can drop down and set WRs at 3K/2 mile. geb couldn't and he had similarly ridiculous wheels at the end of races. simply because someone can run mid to low 50s at the end of a race doesn't mean they have the same top end speed a miler like el g has. good wheels aren't great wheels and that's what you need when you drop below 5K.

JT wrote:

i believe komen ran his 7:20 a few months after his 20th birthday? pretty young if you ask me.

that's right. he set all of his records before he turned 22.

Believe me when I say that I'm not saying this to be perverse, but I think that both the 15 and 5 records are as good as the 3. First, with rare exceptions, the 3 is run as an early season tune up or late season add on. It's not an Olympic event and so commands less attention than the 15 or 5. Thus, most guys are probably more focused on one or the other and their ability at 3k is just an extension of what they can do at the shorter or longer distance. Personally, I think anybody (I know there aren't that many) who can run 3:30 and has good endurance can run around 7:20 given some good luck.

To answer the original question, ElG, if he has a good day (equivalent to his 15 record), is capable of running 7:15! I also think Geb in his prime or Bekele this season could have run 7:20 on the right day. Remember that Rono ran 7:32 and was - I'd bet - not capable of breaking 3:35.

All right, let 'er rip....

Chuck d ,

you are perhaps the only one who understood me.

I am not saying that he cannot be beaten at shorter races. far from it. All I am saying is that for races over 8k, you have to be in another world to beat this boy. However, for anything below 8k, I can conjure up a scenario where he can be beaten and he has.

El G beat him twice at the 5k at Paris and Athens. Eliud in Paris. This is after he set the world record. He might have run the 10k a few hours before and maybe that is the reason why he lost.

For the 3k, he lost to Chebii. That is the only race I can remember of head. There could be others.

As for the 3k, as chuck d says, he doesn't have that bust of speed needed to break the record but maybe we haven't seen his full potential yet.

I hope i am makin gsense.

Just in case I don't, English is certainly not my first language. Please forgive me. I wish I was writing in another language.

native,

for those who do not often read the board, they do not know that english is not your first language. they tend to not read the theme of your whole post and instead seize on a single phrase or word. thus, the resulting confusion. made sense to me the first time and since yorus was a good point, i am glad we got it clarified.

Bekele has run 2 seconds faster than Komen at 5k. No one in the world can beat him at 4K cross country.

So I don't think it's unfair to say he's at least equal to Komen at 3K. And his best years may still be ahead of him.

He could do it.

Salah, I agree with you completely (except 7:15 might be a little quick). I really don't understand why everyone is up on the 3k record's nuts so bad... I mean jesus, is it really that much better than a 3:26 1500m? or a 12:37 5k? I don't believe that it is. the 12:37 is, I believe, 4:02 1600m pace for well over three miles! YIKES. Bekele and El G can definitely break the record. By how much, I don't know, and I don't know if either one WILL break the record, but they are definitely capable... it's just silly to say that they aren't. It's like saying that there is no way Webb could've run 8:36 in HS, in my opinion (perhaps a bad example to some)... even though his PR was 8:45, he clearly could've smoked an 8:36 outdoors with his mile PR, possibly even sub-8:30!!! The 3k record is great, but don't give it too much credit... Bekele will get it within the next couple of years, GUARENTEED!

I think that all of you guys are fogetting how good Daniel Komen was at his best. Remember that he ran 3:28 and 12:39. Thats the same pr as geb in the 5k and 3 seconds better for the 1500. There is a reason that NO ONE has even come close to the 3000 record, and it's not because it's rarely run. Remember, both Geb and El G have taken serious shots at it and neither one has come close.

The Insider wrote:

I think that all of you guys are fogetting how good Daniel Komen was at his best. Remember that he ran 3:28 and 12:39. Thats the same pr as geb in the 5k and 3 seconds better for the 1500. There is a reason that NO ONE has even come close to the 3000 record, and it's not because it's rarely run. Remember, both Geb and El G have taken serious shots at it and neither one has come close.

Komen did not 3:28, he ran 3:29.46. Geb's 3:31 was INDOORS (always slower). Geb could have run 3:30 outdoors at least. So that is only a second better than Geb at 1500.

(Komen DID run a 3:46 mile though......which could be better than his 1500)

Yes, Komen is one of the greatest runners ever (for a brief period of time). But Bekele, VIRTUALLY BY HIMSELF, ran 2 1/2 seconds faster at 5k than Komen. So what does THAT tell you?

As far as El G taking serious shots at the 3k record, he took ONE shot, right? And he missed by 2.4 seconds, which is fairly close, and that was back when he was focusing almost solely on 1500/mile. A couple more shots, as he was moving up to the 5k, racing Bekele........

Bekele and El G can DEFINITELY run 7:20. I don't know if they will or are even capable of running 7:19. But they can run 7:20 I am sure.

7:15??? Whoever wrote THAT is nuts. That is just plain SILLY. Don't pull #'s out of your ass please. Why not say El G can break 7:00 while you are at it?

7:20 is obviously an unbelievable record, almost Coe-esque (1:41.7 800m). But Bekele and El G are 2 of the all-time talents with the speed/endurance combo to do it. Bekele definitely has more endurance than Komen did (but not quite as much speed), and El G has WAY more speed than Komen, but not quite the endurance (though he has shown some awesome endurance with this 1500/5k doubles in the last 2 years). So......

7:20.......it's a time they can achieve if they really go for it.

sir lance,

I think that (perhaps) NativeSon's comment was echoing the comments of Renato, when after WXC, he said that Bekele is (when in good form) absolutely unbeatable at 8k-15k -- that real red-line zone of running. But at 5km, even at top form, he is beatable depending on how the race is run.

Bekele has the endurance yes. More than either of the two others. He does NOT have the speed. He has a lot of speed, no question. But he does not have Komen speed. The thing about Bekele's speed is that he he has it at the end of a long race and that's something no-one else in the world possesses as much as he does. But he does not have WR 3k speed. Sorry, he might make 7:23, 7:22, but no way in hell he's breaking Komen's record. Komen wipes the floor with him at that distance.

I know this extremist example isn't what you are talking about, but I guarentee you he's beatable at 10k, too... what if the first 24 laps are run at 10 minute pace and Jeremy Wariner is in the race? Bekele would lose.

I don't think he is much more unbeatable at 10k than 5k. In the 10k, there is a lot more time for him to use tactics to burn everyone. But look at his two major losses at 5k: World Champs and the Olympics. Both races he barely lost in insane kickers races to VERY GOOD PEOPLE. You have to admit, the competition he has faced in the 5k (El G and Kipchoge) is a lot better than what he's faced in the 10k (Sihine and an injured Geb). Plus, he's run the 5k's while sore from blistering 10k's earlier. I really don't think there is some massive difference in Bekele's ability at 5k vs.10k. He easily got the WR's in both, and he is the best in the world at both, with the possibly exception of El G and even then possibly only in a slower race.

We both know Kenny would take it out a little faster.

How do you beat Bekele at 10000m? You can't run away from him, he can kick of a fast pace and when no one makes the pace he makes it himself.

trackhead, I do see your point.

But I agree with "wueueueueeueueueu"'s comments above.

Bekele may be slightly better at 10k, but he simply ran poor tactics against a better kicker in El G. Hell, if he ran as stupid in the Athens 10k as he did in the Athens 5k against El G, and El G had been IN THE 10K.....I think El G could have won THAT race too. And yes, that too is an extreme example, but less extreme than the Wariner one. If they ran fairly easy for first 20 laps of a 10k, El G could outkick Bekele.

Maybe the REAL difference in Bekele's 10k vs 5k ability is that in the 10k championships, he had BETTER TEAMMATES PACING HIM and less dangerous kickers. He had Geb and Sihine in the 10k races helping him, AND no El G caliber kicker to contend with.

I think El G can run under 12:40 in a 5k. But if Bekele gets some pacing and help he can run 12:35. That is as good as his 26:20 (or 26:18 potential he might have).

mikemogz wrote:

We all know that bekele is virtually untouchable over 10000m, but can he use his awesome combination of speed & endurance to run a sub 7:20 3000m ? or will the pace be impossible for him?

You mean can his dr./drug guru find the right combination of drugs to keep him alive and performing at optimum doped output long enough to break the record.