1 hour in the weight room. Give me a good routine!

There's a really strong guy at my gym. He mostly sits on a bench by the squat rack and texts on his phones (yes he has 2 of them) the whole time he's there. I've been copying his routine for the last few months, but haven't noticed any gainz, but I'm sure they're coming.

LM wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

Three upper body lifts and one lower body lifts for a sport that’s pretty much all lower body?

Alan

I've yet to establish a clear picture of the purpose of gym work for runners. Injury prevention? Force Production? Being "stronger" isn't inherently advantageous for running so I'm assuming that's not the goal.

You just answered your own question and yes being stronger is advantagious. Take 2 guys, same bodyweight and times and strength. Now add 10-15lbs to one guys squat/deadlifts without adding too much weight. Who wkll be at a disadvantage when it comes down to the kick?

The heavier guy will be at a disadvantage, because he's carried that extra 10-15# for 9.9km. There's a reason distance runners are skeletons.

He's not saying he's 10-15 pounds heavier, he's saying maybe he's 3-4 pounds heavier but can squat and deadlift 10-15 pounds more than the stereotypical skinny distance guy. Chris Solinsky vs. Galen Rupp.

Personally, I think you can gain a lot from a basic strength routine, with some added single-leg work.

* Legs: Squats, deadlifts, step ups/lunges, single leg deadlifts

* Upper body: Bench press, overhead press, row

Heavy weight and low rep for everything. Except for step ups/lunges and single leg deadlifts, which shouldn't be as close to max weight for basic safety and form concerns.

UsedToBeKnowItAll wrote:

The heavier guy will be at a disadvantage, because he's carried that extra 10-15# for 9.9km. There's a reason distance runners are skeletons.

You are retard. Reread my post.

Pullups

pushups

forward lung while holding the barbell above your head.

single leg bent over row into a single leg clean with knee drive.

push-up position row (making sure to keep your core tight)

wood-chop exercise

These are just a few good exercises that engage muscles you use when running. (If you don't know them by these names google them)

A lot of strength and conditioning programs mainly focus on contraction, while this does make the muscles stronger, it is better to do exercises that are lengthening not contractions. A lot of other stuff is mainly mobility and muscle tissue mobility work

RejectRunner wrote:

LM wrote:

I've yet to establish a clear picture of the purpose of gym work for runners. Injury prevention? Force Production? Being "stronger" isn't inherently advantageous for running so I'm assuming that's not the goal.

You just answered your own question and yes being stronger is advantagious. Take 2 guys, same bodyweight and times and strength. Now add 10-15lbs to one guys squat/deadlifts without adding too much weight. Who wkll be at a disadvantage when it comes down to the kick?

This would depend on the race. If it's been a fairly challenging race, and the kick wasn't saved for the last 30m, neither would be advantaged. The only thing the strength could do is increase the runner's top speed. In a hard race, with a kick longer than perhaps 5-10s you're not limited by speed but by FRC. More strength won't effect that. It would be similar to asking the question, in a 5000m race with two runners of identical 5k PR run at PR pace - 0.1 seconds per lap who would you pick to win assuming Runner A had a 48s 400m PR and Runner B a 60s 400m PR. The answer is neither. At that pace, FRC is completely drained and both runners aren't going to have much of a finish.

Now, if it was a slow race, well off 5k ability, say 20+ seconds, or everyone went slow and didn't kick till last 50m or so, then I'd be inclined to bet on the guy with more strength. At the same time, I'm not entirely sure that always correlates to sprint speed for an individual. I think you could get stronger and squat/deadlift without becoming a whole lot faster.

100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats, and 10km running...EVERY SINGLE DAY

Only 2x/wk is necessary. Start with 3X3 clean and jerks OR cleans. Then 3X5 squats. Then 3X6 bench. Finish up with 3Xas many pullups as possible or 3X8-12 rows (cable or dumbell).

You'll be sore/tired at first but after a few weeks this shouldn't affect your running much. Except to make you stronger.

60 minutes on the treadmill

Absolutely. The connotation of the weight room and bodybuilding bulk is just so misleading. The weight room for functional running exercises is super underutilized. Running is the only sport where there is a real fear of the weight room. Ryan Hall said it best, "running is a very catabolic endeavor, and with no anabolic stimulus, the body will for sure break down." Yeah maybe guys in their 20s and early 30s who's T levels are still high may not see a coorelation, but talk to the 48 year old runner who's form is falling apart and their legs have lost a big kick. I'd bet anything that runners whom are 40+ and take on a full body strength routine, even twice a week would feel a world of difference.

Yep. Running at the level of a competitive HS to College or “Pro” Runner (ie: running on average 45-60min a day minimum with a longer long run on the weekend) is very catabolic and unless that Runner is weightlifting 4-6x week, eating massive amounts of protein, and eating a caloric surplus there is simply not going to be a measurable gain in mass that is beyond the normal uptick over that time period (ie: it is normal for 18-25yr old men to gain some muscle simply due to the affects of natural testosterone production at that age). Pair that with a program that focuses on strength, explosiveness and power and you have nothing to worry about when it comes to adding mass. What happens is a runner might seem “pumped” after a lifting session and perceive a weight gain that isn’t there or they may notice muscles protruding more due to reductions in body fat paired with slight gains in muscle size (slight meaning 1-2lbs).

Alan

Thanks for all the input everyone! This is all really helpful!

Leave.

Lydiard was against any upper body wt. training and did not have his charges lift except in the absence of hills.

Gettin Swolle wrote:

Recently started doing heavy weight sessions in the afternoons of my workout days. Many pro runners I’ve researched tend to say they do about 45 minutes to an hour. Since I’m only doing it 3 times a week, I’d like to work the whole body with each session (arms, core, and legs).

3 running workouts in a week, plus "only" 3 heavy weight sessions after each workout...sounds excessive. But can't say more because you didn't mention are your goals in running (want to still improve?). If you try to improve your running, add weekly hill sprints, and ultimately do just 1 weight session in a week (if lifting heavy weights, low reps). But don't lift heavy right away, only until you've gained some basic strength and a decent technique. So at first 2 basic strength sessions in a week before moving to heavier weights.

Here is my routine at 50 years of age/ slightly modified my weight is 143lbs

Day 1 ( all efforts with 60-90 seconds rest)

1x12 pull ups

3x6 pull ups with 10kg (or 22 lbs attached)

2x6 single arm bent over rows 40kg (88lbs)

2x4 single bent over rows 45kg (99lbs)

1x10 bench press 60kg (132lbs)

3x3 bench press 80kg(176lbs)

3x8 inclinde dumbell press 26kg(57lbs)

Military press 4x8 22kg (48lbs)

4x7 165 Dead lift

3x45 seconds farmer walks with 50kg (110LB)

10-15 minutes progressive on treadmill

Day 2

10 minutes progressive run on treadmill

medicine ball matrix last 15 minutes

4x4 90kg deadlift

4x6 60kg squats

4x6 60kgs step ups

cardio

Day 3

similar but replace following

5x10 pull ups

5x10 60kg bench press.

20 minute progressive

Good luck and when you are over 50 still lift!

waltertompatton wrote:

Leave.

Lydiard was against any upper body wt. training and did not have his charges lift except in the absence of hills.

Coaches in most other sports, including football, used to be against weight lifting as well. Weight lifting has benefits for runners.

Alan

I don't allow my XC runners to go to the gym unless I am with them. They always make friends with some beach buf knucklehead and do cut down sets to build muscle mass but not strength.

They will argue to me about this like I don't know what I'm talking about. This is not even good for my sprinters.

Every pound you put on your body you have to fight vertical forces to support. Upper body weight I the death of runners. Even sprinters. Arm movements can not lift the body mass you produce in the weight room against gravity. That's a fact.

Almost nobody is lifting correctly in regards to the needs of runners.

otter wrote:

I don't allow my XC runners to go to the gym unless I am with them. They always make friends with some beach buf knucklehead and do cut down sets to build muscle mass but not strength.

They will argue to me about this like I don't know what I'm talking about. This is not even good for my sprinters.

Every pound you put on your body you have to fight vertical forces to support. Upper body weight I the death of runners. Even sprinters. Arm movements can not lift the body mass you produce in the weight room against gravity. That's a fact.

Almost nobody is lifting correctly in regards to the needs of runners.

Gary Winkler said pretty much what you're saying. He didn't want the strength coaches at Illinois working with his sprinters because they weren't helping them run better, he took the strength training to the track. He commented that US runners lift themselves out of medal contention. But this is why he and Boo developed a strength program for track athletes. Those interested should look it up on the USATFCCCA site.