Moving to La Paz for altitude training

I ran in Copacabana (Lake Titicaca), 3800+m. That was a lot of fun. Was just there for a week or so.

Worked in Cochabamba for a month and found nice running routes there, but that only 2500+m and the elevation isn't that noticeable.

Curiouslyseriously wrote:

I have to make a decision until the end of the month anyway. Your help means a lot. I read some studies and talked to a local sports scientist and he said you could get benefit from training above 10,000 feet too. If your body adapts then you accelerate the process. I don't have a decade on my side. I want to give it a few years and see if i get where i want.

Yeah....I don't agree with your notion that you'll just get the physiological benefits of training at 8,000 feet for 5 years in just 2-3 years at 12000 feet.

I've never been to Toluca though I've been to Mexico over 20 times. BTW, I think the guy who mentioned that meant Zacatecas, not Zapotecas.

Mexico is going to be more expensive than Bolivia, that's for sure. One of my favorite places in Mexico is Real de Catorce -- about 9000 feet up in the mountains, sort of hard to reach, but miles and miles of trails up in the mountains, you could run forever. Small place, though, not a lot else to do. Decent food, very cheap.

I really like Puebla as well, I've been there three times this year. My issue with Puebla is air quality -- it can be pretty smoggy there, especially over the winter when there is no rain. I'd be concerned about that.

Curiouslyseriously wrote:

I'm not looking for an extreme remote place or so. I am willing to commit to my training, though i would like some sort of a social life too. My budget would be max 1200$/month. Would that be enough for a good living in Toluca? What i'm looking for is a place at high altitude, minimum 2500m, with good running trails, without loose dogs or so. And a training group would be a bonus. Also, i'd like that locals aren't rude or not willing to help you out. I really want to commit to it and get as close as possible to Rob De Castilla Oceanic record.

hell yeah dude, 1200 $ = 22000 mexican pesos, in Toluca you wouldn't pay more than 150$ for renting a condo Toluca is among the cheapest city of the mexico city state, regarding the daily expenses you have to spend around 30-50$ per week for food, maybe 5 or 10$ for public transit, as for urban transport 1 ticket= 0.32$ in Puebla it might be cheaper in Toluca, if you want to reach the sierra surrounding the region you have to spend like 40-60 pesos for one hour or so of transit which is like 2-3 $.

Mexico is obviously more expensive than Bolivia Peru, but it's still pretty cheap for western people, with 1200$ per month you can live very well, hanging out as much as your running agenda allows you, travel across the country there is so much stuff to see. I have nothing against Peru/Bolivia but if I were in your position I would not moved there aside from tourism, those two countries are developing nations infrastructure facilities are really bad, no big running park, it's way harder to reach the good running spots, less entertainment (I assume you are looking for a bit of fun).

@Jose el plomero Yes absolutely the state is Zacatecas I know some kenyans train there it's dryer than mexico city but it's cheaper and easier to reach the trails surrounding the city. Zapotecas is the hill where I used to do my trail running in Cholula near Puebla ahahaha.

And yes real de catorce is freaking awesome! I went there for a 2 days trail race (26k the first day and 16k the second), German Silva(NY marathon winner in 1995) ran this race too, the atmosphere in this town is just unreal, and you can almost reach 3000m pretty quickly running up the trails surrounding the city. The town itself is located at 2700m above sea level. Eventhough this town is really small so you might be bored during the week, there is some bar and shop but the social life is way better during the week end considering the fact that its a turist town, the local running scene is really small.

Here a video of the trail race in Real de Catorce if you want to get a quick view of the trail surrounding the city (I appear in the video Iam the only white guy ahaha)

Curiouslyseriously wrote:

I have to make a decision until the end of the month anyway. Your help means a lot. I read some studies and talked to a local sports scientist and he said you could get benefit from training above 10,000 feet too. If your body adapts then you accelerate the process. I don't have a decade on my side. I want to give it a few years and see if i get where i want.

Yeah, I'm going to call BS on that 10k claim as well. I've never read of any elite *choosing* to run at 10-12k on a regular basis as a benefit over 7-9k.

I've spent time in Bolivia (La Paz), Peru (Cusco, Puno), Ecuador (Quito and south), Colombia (Bogota, Manizales, coast), and Mexico. As others have mentioned, I think Mexico, Chile or Colombia offer the best balance of livability, training options and amenities, and cost. Mexico or Chile would be ideal if you're really just "training" focused (ie. Kenyan style). Colombia (Bogota) would provide a more engaging place to "live" while you're training, but you may not want that. My country-by-country opinions:

Bolivia: Yes, it will be very cheap, but it will be hard to run in the La Paz area as its all steep, tight roads. Decent amount of pollution trapped in the valley, and decent trails are probably 30-45min away. My experience in La Paz was better than expected, but it's not a particularly nice or interesting place. Friendly people, decent food, but it suffers from the reality of being a poor country.

Ecuador: Quito is similar in scale/sprawl to La Paz, but with a more "friendly" 9000' altitude. It still has millions of people packed into the steep nooks and crannys of a rugged valley. Beautiful old parts of the city, but hard to get to trails depending on where you're living (could be 30min+ to get out). Pretty cheap place to live and probably slightly more modern than La Paz. There is a running scene there, moreso than La Paz.

Peru: I can't speak to Quito, but Cusco was a pretty decent city, but it's sprawl is chasing that of La Paz/Quito in a way. Trails would be at least 10-20min out of town, and you'd be running at around 12k in most cases, unless you were to drive farther out into other valleys. Probably more expensive that Quito or La Paz, but more exposure to western amenities (if you want that) with all the tourists around.

Mexico: I haven't spent time in the Highlands, but I spent a few weeks in a mid-size city off the tourist track and got a nice feel for "real" Mexico. I've heard great things about people who've gone the the highlands to train and I think you'd have great trails and training potential. $1200/mo should be fine to live there, especially if you're focused on training and not looking to play tourist on your down time.

Colombia: Bogota would be the most modern and Western-esque option to pursue. It's an incredible city, plenty of runners, tons to do, but is also very large and sprawled (in a flat valley sided by mountains). Trail access could be ok if you're in the nicer downtown part towards the East side, but would be more limited farther west/north.

Thank you guys for your honest opinions. I can say that Real De Catorce looks appealing to me but i have some questions. Doesn't it get too hot during summer? Also, are there more flat trails without rocks? In the video i saw a lot of trails filled with rocks and +10% incline.

Why not just go to Kenya, like the Robertson brothers?

Firstly, it's further from Australia. Also, i want to have a different approach, i have a 5 year plan. I am fully commited to this. Now i feel like San Pedro de Atacama might be the best choice. Great weather, not many rainy days, very high altitude and practically you can run forever there, endless possibilities, trail, roads. Also it features easy access and it's not too expensive..

Maybe the best strategy for you would be to pick a half dozen places in South America and visit them, spend 2-3 weeks in each, then make your decision. If you've never been to a place like La Paz or Quito it's hard to describe the amount of chaos and unpredictability that one can find in big Latin American cities. It's going to be culture shock for you, particularly if you don't speak Spanish. On the flip side, the smaller, more rural places will be very isolating for you. Maybe not the best.

You're right. Some friends also suggested this. I will go to San Pedro de Atacama firstly for a few weeks to see how it is. Do you have any knowledge of the area? If you can rent there a place to stay or so?

Not sure why you need such extreme high altitude, unless you are training to be an alpinist. I spent 2 years in MX City and often would run/hike on weekends at 12,000+. I'm not sure there is any real benefit to be gained over quality high training at 6 to 8K feey. Remember, altitude is not everything, one has to maintain leg speed. If altitude training was the only factor that mattered in distance running, we would see world records coming out of the Andes and Himalayas. As has already been mentioned, Toluca outside the MX City might work for you. Juan Luis Barrios Nieves, if I'm not mistaken, was (is) based in Toluca. The Nevado de Toluca volcano offers great running up to 15,000 ft+. When climbing there I would often see the locals running the numerous trails. The area is safe and you are much more likely to feel at home with the food/housing/friendly folks.

How are the trails over there? I hope there aren't too many rocks on them. Also how's the air quality? It's close to MX so it might be polluted i guess.. Barrios would be a great training partner honestly.

Curiouslyseriously wrote:

How are the trails over there? I hope there aren't too many rocks on them. Also how's the air quality? It's close to MX so it might be polluted i guess.. Barrios would be a great training partner honestly.

Even back in the MX City the pollution is not that bad. Toluca would be no problem pollution wise. The running scene down in MX is fantastic. The trails around Nevado de Toluca are not too bad for rocks. It is only up on the volcano's rim where you couldn't run. You could easily find places at Nevado for speed work. Of course, this is if your lungs could handle it. Check out the video below.

Hey man - first of all, shoot me an email which should appear under my username.

I'm a 2h15 marathoner and I have a LOT of experience actually training to be in that kind of shape in the Andes. I can't speak to Mexico but I can speak to Ec, Pe, Bo, etc. Let me go through some things.

I did almost exactly what you want to do- moved to the Andes for cheap altitude training chasing a dream after college. I graduated as a 30'22 guy and improved to 29'48/65'30 in 6 months and debuted in 2h21 the following spring. This was in 2013. Since then I've spent several months of every year at altitude in the Andes, mostly in the Sacred Valley in Peru and Quito, Ec.

There are a few important things that I don't think you're considering.

1: 3000m+ is too high for you. It's good for building aerobic base but not for running fast. It's just too high. Your body can handle the hard sessions you need to do.

2: one big problem with lots of Andean cities is that they're built into mountain valleys and the roads are extremely steep. This might be good if you're training for a mtn or trail race but it's not ideal for Marathon or shorter.

3: running culture is non existent in some places. This means that things you take for granted like safe roads or sidewalks or tracks are just not around. There are some cities with good running culture though so you just need to know what to look for.

Here are my thoughts on a few cities:

La Paz - honestly this is the worst city I've ever been to for running. It is extremely high, very polluted, and the streets and sidewalks are way too crowded and steep for real running. No runninn culture at all. Don't bother.

Cusco - similar to La Paz but a bit better. There are some good runners but they almost entirely train in a small sports complex with a 500m grass loop and a tartan track. Cusco is way too high 3400m for real regular training but you have access to lower elevations around 2900m in the sacred valley.

Sacred valley Peru - this is where I've spent the last 8 summers specifically in Pisac at 2900m. This is one of the best spots I've found but is a bit too high for some people to do faster training. Lots of dirt roads, good cheap food, good weather, etc. Only drawback is altitude is a bit high.

Quito, Ec - This is honestly one of my favorite places in SA to train. The city has several very good runners and has a big running culture. There are multiple parks that are easily accessible and safe for running. You can also take a bus 20 min and be at 7500 ft or 3 hours and be at 1500 ft - basically sea level. I've had several very successful training blocks here including my year after graduation. The weather is amazing and it's also very cheap. This would be my recommendation.

I'm actually going to be in quito next year in January to June or so. I'd be happy to connect and train together and introduce you to whomever is around. It'd be great to have another fast gringo around. Shoot me an email.

Tyler

PS practice your Spanish if you really want to move to the Andes. It'll make a big difference.

Damn - didn't put my email on the last one. Trying again.

Sorry - last try. That email was an old one that doesn't work. If for some reason it doesn't appear, it's: Tyler (at) strivetrips.org.

Looks great to be fair, ideal altitude and weather should be good all year round. How can you find a place to rent in Toluca? As close as possible to Nevado de Toluca would be great.

Curiouslyseriously wrote:

Looks great to be fair, ideal altitude and weather should be good all year round. How can you find a place to rent in Toluca? As close as possible to Nevado de Toluca would be great.

Probably just like in MX City. You can walk around the neighborhood you want to live and look for rental signs. Shouldn't be a problem.

Here is dated article from '95 I liked

You can probably get in touch with a training group off the internet...I'll see what I can find for you

I contacted you via e-mail Tyler. See you there