How to pull back leg faster

Not bad, but it reads more clearly with commas on each side of the word 'obviously' in the last sentence.

The old "well I guess their heel IS hitting first but it's not really heelstriking ." lol

That's the whole point. The heel CAN hit first without excessive braking.

It's the clowns like doot doot that don't get that and go to the extreme opposite as the only way.

How many of you actually believe that any of this makes any material difference in performance particularly when compared to genetic vo2max capacity, trainability of vo2max, genetic lactate threshold, trainability of lactate threshold, and a capacity for large volumes of work without injury?

Yes, running economy is one of the legs of the running ability stool, and yes proper mechanics impact running economy, but we are talking about relatively miniscule differences - differences that are essentially meaningless for us non-elites who populate this forum. And even that is assuming that mechanics should be universal across body types, which is simply not true. Even those who are trying to emphasize not being a heel striker are straining to parse between elites who land heel first and heel strikers.

Too many are focusing about trying to get rain drop landing on them (perfection of marginal potential improvements in running economy) when they should be focusing on diving into the pool (building volume, improving vo2max, improving lactate threshold, getting whatever big and easy chunks in running economy improvement might be out there, getting adequate rest, getting in the right kinds of workouts at the right time.).

toot toot wrote:

The old "well I guess their heel IS hitting first but it's not really heelstriking ." lol

I think that it a misinterpretation, going beyond just semantics, in order to enable a clear understanding. It comes down to proper interpretation in the vernacular context when discussing' running form'. Elites, by the nature of being fast elites, have minimal sweep bifurcation; thus they do not 'brake'; they do not heel strike. A whisp of scraping shoe across the pavement before mass loading does not, in itself, define heel striking. As shoe drop gets built up more-and-more, there would eventually come a point where it might appear even Bekele's heel is striking the ground first. But no, it would only be a touching of the shoe's heel as it glanced across the ground, before the real foot strike takes place. Eventually, if the shoe drop were to be increased more, the shoe's built-up heel would impede Bekele's sweeping mechanics; a bifurcation (braking) would eventually occur with too much heel drop in the shoes of even Bekele (an obvious fore-foot striker).

Smoove wrote:

Even those who are trying to emphasize not being a heel striker are straining to parse between elites who land heel first and heel strikers.

Elites (we are referring to the top echelon of fast runners), in general, neither "heel strike" nor "land heel first".

The point is that people should not be told heel first contact is bad.

As Smoove notes above your footstrike really isn't going to be your big source of gains, if any. Nor is it going to be the anchor slowing you down.

Right, some elites just have glancing, sweeping contact with their heel before any other part of their foot hits. Definitely not "landing" heel first. Got it.

Smoove is referring to the gains that can be made by folks (hobby joggers) that are so far from the definition of elite. But the more fit a hobby-jogger gets, the more difference braking (or other poor biomechanics) is going to eventually impact their finish times.

dooby dooby doo wrote:

Smoove is referring to the gains that can be made by folks (hobby joggers) that are so far from the definition of elite. But the more fit a hobby-jogger gets, the more difference braking (or other poor biomechanics) is going to eventually impact their finish times.

Nobody maxes out the other factors to the point that altering footsrike will give them their last possible gains.

it is what, it is wrote:

Smoove wrote:

Even those who are trying to emphasize not being a heel striker are straining to parse between elites who land heel first and heel strikers.

Elites (we are referring to the top echelon of fast runners), in general, neither "heel strike" nor "land heel first".

False.

dooby dooby doo wrote:

But the more fit a hobby-jogger gets, the more difference braking (or other poor biomechanics) is going to eventually impact their finish times.

There is a caveat or two to consider, depending on what distance the hobby-joggers are competing at. For example, hobby-joggers setting the transcontinental world record are not going to be using a fast running gait. For the sakes of efficiency, a gait where they try to roll forward from heel-to-toe might be more efficient (could be anywhere from 9-14min/mile pace) over their longer distance. If they were to set the World Record at that venture, they might, nonetheless, be considered 'elite' at that task.

Suggest you read the thread to get edumacated; still photos are next to useless for foot-strike interpretation.

Pre Come wrote:

http://www.daytonabeachcombers.com/gallowayprebatchelor.jpg

That's a really interesting picture. I don't know who the guy to Pre's left is (Galloway or Batchelor), but he is clearly landing on his mid-foot forefoot while pre is landing on his heel. More interestingly, it appears that they are both landing with their feet well ahead of their center of gravity, although that could ostensibly be a camera angle issue.

All of which goes to the point that there is no universal truth across runners, nor is there a universal truth for any given runner across all paces run by that runner.

you've been schooled wrote:

Suggest you read the thread to get edumacated; still photos are next to useless for foot-strike interpretation.

False. They are extremely useful. You just can't believe that what you are seeing doesn't mesh with what you thought was your reality.

you've been schooled wrote:

Suggest you read the thread to get edumacated; still photos are next to useless for foot-strike interpretation.

Correct. When Pre was actually running (fast), he was a mid/forefoot striker, as elites typically are. For example, in the following video, at 1:10, 1:13 we can clearly see Pre striking mid/forefoot.

He evidently made it a point to strongly dorsiflex before foot-strike, so photos shot immediately before foot strike are wrongly interpreted by the uninformed that he was a heel-striker.

It is a pathetic shame that people will take a still photo and try to make hair-brained conclusions on subsequent motion dynamics of that runner, even for difference paces of that runner. They will then go off and collect a whole bunch of same photos to try an build a case for meaningless if not outlandish statements like "60% of elites heel strike". Maybe they do that to justify their poor biomechanics, just one factor which distinguishes them from actual elites.

Nope. Running happens faster than the eye can follow. That's why super slo-mo video tells the true story. It doesn't get slower mo than a still pic. Like this one.

https://thisisnotadvertising.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/0629_prefontaine-running.jpg

a sorry state of affairs wrote:

It is a pathetic shame that people will take a still photo and try to make hair-brained conclusions on subsequent motion dynamics of that runner, even for difference paces of that runner. They will then go off and collect a whole bunch of same photos to try an build a case for meaningless if not outlandish statements like "60% of elites heel strike". Maybe they do that to justify their poor biomechanics, just one factor which distinguishes them from actual elites.

Incorrect. The point is that the heel can strike first and everything will be just fine.

You also have a myriad of factors separating you from elites.