Why did Mo Farah win the 10000m in London? Greater stride length than his competitors.

i think i maya cracked it !!!

stride length is an eternal question in sprints but just as important in longer but not analysed by vid because of difficulty of camera arrangements in such

thhe question always basically has been

~ "how do 2 guys of same height & assumed leg length run who run the same but different stride lengths differ in their intrinsic "engine" ( = endurance ) ?"

now, it's physics & fundamental concept involved is :

drag or air resistance

for normal considerations it is :

v^3

however, this is what has always eluded me, how to modify this for different stride lengths ?

then it struck me, guys with different stride lengths clocking same have 1 have guy taking more strides & those strides suffer more

"v^3 damage"

as a result

->

the difference is

v^3 * v^3

=

v^6

->

difference in "intrinsic engine" or endurance or specifically what clocking shorter strider coud have if he had the longer stride & concomitant lesser frequency is modified by :

( Ratio of Stride )^(1/6)

All over the track wrote:

Mo data needed wrote:

It would be nice to see the same analysis for the 5000 and see how it compares.

I bet ventolin could do it and be talking about Kipketer and Cruz before he wrapped things up

i don't know about that Colussus, but i offer my humble offerings in above post in his inexplicable absence...

calculo wrote:for 2 guys of equal height or specifically leg length, the one with longer stride is more powerful from natural strength or better weight-training

I wonder if this is an argument for the time in the gym using weights that is part of NOP training, but perhaps not for most Kenyan/Ethiopian runners.

Farah hadn't seriously lifted weights before joining the Oregon Project a little more than two years ago.

"Mo is getting stronger and stronger," Salazar says. "He was behind Galen in terms of stability and core stuff. He has progressed so much. He is really ripped now, and that is why he is kicking so fast. It's just body strength."

800 dude wrote:

It's astonishing to me that anyone disagrees with the central governor theory. (Unless they misunderstand it completely and think it means that you can run a 15 minute 10k if you put your mind to it.)

you must spend a lot of time being astonished

calculo wrote:

( Ratio of Stride )^(1/6)

practical example needed

say you have 2 guys of same height, leg length & mass & both clock 27'00 of course at perfect even pace

1 has stride thruout from gun-tape of 2.00m ( = mo ) & Kenyan has 1.75m

( remember, the study was of stride sprinting flat-out in last 50m which is obviously going to be longer with quoted 2.20+ )

we can now estimate what mo's superior power thru weight training with sal has improved him by, as otherwise you woud expect him to have had "Kenyan" stride of 1.75m

Kenyan if he had mo's 2.00 stride with of course concomitant slower frequency ( by the reciprocal ) to keep clocking same at 27'00

->

27'00 * ( 1.75/2.00 )^(1/6)

->

26'24.35

what is a prelim conclusion is that sal has improved mo by 35s compared to what he woud have got as career PB if stayed in UK

alternatively, the Kenyans are giving up 35s to mo by not having sal training, specifically the weight training...

now we got tools to analyse "bolt"

he ran 9.58 with a nice wind of 0.9

he is 6'5

most elite sprinters now are 6'0 & they all do plenty of weights & let's assume all the 6'0 or taller have expected faster frequency than upto reaching 6'5 "limit"

what if bolt was 6'0 instead of 6'5 & concomitant lesser power but obviously faster frequency ?

->

9.58 * ( 6'5 / 6'0 )^(1/6)

->

9.69

you coud tentatively conclude each 1" increase in height gives potential 0.02s quicker potential all other factors being equal...

Shaq should be running the Olympic 10000.

Torso Velocity is the real key. Your Torso must start at the start line and it is the deciding factor in a photo finish. Therefore Torso Velocity is the only factor worth discussing.

calculo wrote:

now we got tools to analyse "bolt"

what if bolt was 6'0 instead of 6'5 & concomitant lesser power but obviously faster frequency ?

You're just making stuff up. Why in the world would you use height instead of leg length when your initial post references leg length?

There's a general correlation between height and leg length but there's also so much individual variation. that one is probably not a proxy for the other.

ukathleticscoach wrote:I bet his stride length hasn't changed since he was finishing out of the medals

no

it was probably 20 - 30cm shorter in '10

weight-training+++ & coaching with conscious effort to maintain longer stride have jacked it up

if you consciously effort to jack up stride & eschew lifting, probably thru better leg flexibility thru gymnastics training with specific coach such as trying to attempt to eventually do the

"splits"

do you think Komen-7'20 ever attempted ever to even attempt "splits" ???

however, don't throw out concept of gymnastics & approaching "splits"

this "ultimate pliabilty" with serious gymnastic coaches training you to get to "splits" ability, coud add perhaps 2.5 - 5cm to full stride

if usual "Kenyan", normal stride is ~ 1.75m, so we are talking 1.775 - 1.80m thru "splits training"

if 27'00 before gymnastics

with 2.5 - 5cm better stride thru "splits training"

->

27'00 * [( 1.75 / ( 1.80 to 1.775 )]^(1/6)

->

26'52.5 - 26'56.2

for Kenyans, having a gym coach who can eventually flexible them enough to do "splits" woud likely just that alone improve their 10k by 4 - 8s !!!

So you think Farah can do the splits?!

Over flexibility to that extent can actually slowed you down.

Any evidence his stride is 10cm longer?

Heart and lungs is what wins you an endurance race over legs. That's why cheats at long distance on make go for for EPO over steroids. European runners typically have stronger legs than Kenyans. Kiprop is s prime example

As for Farah's supposed strength training did you see him run the 100m in superstars or even better watch him try to ride thst bike up a hill

This study is a perfect example of someone who is expert in one field thinking they can apply it to something they know little about. You could find numerous other races where someone with longer stride gets beat.

Has stride of Bekele suddenly changed from when he set world record?. No his fitness went down due to injury and old age. If his stride did decrease it would be lack of fitness causing it

John Utah wrote:

800 dude wrote:

It's astonishing to me that anyone disagrees with the central governor theory. (Unless they misunderstand it completely and think it means that you can run a 15 minute 10k if you put your mind to it.)

you must spend a lot of time being astonished

800 dude misunderstands if he thinks I was saying anyone could run a 15 minute 10k. As I said before, race winners, PR performances, are generally not even close to being at a dangerous level biologically. They are easy.

Effort is not what makes you go fast, and you hit the biomechanical limits to your speed and endurance before any limits to your level of effort. This should be obvious to an 800 runner, and even more obvious to a 5000 runner. The runner who falls off the back in a 5000 has built up acid and been forced to overbreathe, a situation which no amount of effort can overcome.

This is even more applicable to the winner of the women's 10000m in London Almaz Ayana. Watching her in direct comparison to her competitors reveals a very long leg to body ratio coupled with a long galloping stride and with a high elbows out arm carriage. She has a high knee lift and is an accentuated forefoot striker. She is also very upright in her body.

The result is an effortless ground eating rhythmic gait. If you watch all other female runners in that race their stride is shorter and choppier with more apparent energy expenditure.

Mo Farah has a loping stride which seems to sink into the track with each stride, whereas Ayana skips over the track.

I recall also at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics they did a comparison between Michael Johnson and Mary Jose Perec in their respective 400m races and discovered Johnsons Stride was shorter and he met the ground many more times on his rotation than she.

Yannis claims that Bekele eats too much cake (and so do I).

I did notice that Mo was working on stride lengthening exercises on his Instagram account a few months back. Anyway back 12 or so years Cruz told us about some high school/university girls he was coaching and they would come back after winter with gymnast levels of flexibility and then breakdown. Cruz claimed that at his peak he as was as stiff as a board hence his lean. My Doctor (a dutchman) was at some event back in the 1980s and he banged into John Walker and asked him the secret of his longevity, Walker replied that he stopped stretching.

calculo wrote:

do you think Komen-7'20 ever attempted ever to even attempt "splits" ???

however, don't throw out concept of gymnastics & approaching "splits"

this "ultimate pliabilty" with serious gymnastic coaches training you to get to "splits" ability, coud add perhaps 2.5 - 5cm to full stride

if usual "Kenyan", normal stride is ~ 1.75m, so we are talking 1.775 - 1.80m thru "splits training"

there are videos on youtube of kenians doing flexibility exercises.

He won because (well, better fitness) after they threw everything they had at him, cheptegei, Tanui et al still let Mo take the rail during the last lap- classic Mo position and he obviously ran a small bit less than everyone else that way. And guess what? He won by a small bit.

Really hope Paul Tanui gets his gold one day, you could tell he gave his all for himself and Kenya for one last ditch effort to stop the reign of Mo.

stride length velocity calculator wrote:

Demonstrated scientifically:

http://www.athleticsweekly.com/performance/analysis-stride-length-key-mo-farah-world-10000m-69646

Discus.

speed is stride x frequency

If it was only a question of stride he would have won easily also london marathon