Joe Gray
Joe Gray
Dave Dunham
1) Shorter
2) Centrowitz, Mills, Shul
3) Rupp,
4) Jager, Ryan, Manzano, Chelimo, Meb
Here is my thought process when I think of the "Greatest American Distance Runners". Admittedly, it involves a lot of hypotheticals, and heavily favors more recent runners, so I'm sure a lot of you will disagree with it. Here goes:
I consider the core distance races to be between 3K and half marathon. The marathon is a whole different beast because of fueling issues and the sheer duration of the event. I believe the 1500/mile is too short to be considered a true distance event, I consider it middle distance along with the 800. I'm also only considering the flat 3000, as steepling is also a bit of it's own animal.
So let's say we were able to take all the US greats in their prime and have them race over 3000, 5000, 10000, and half marathon. Here's what I think might happen:
3000: Lagat most likely wins with Rupp just off his shoulder. Jager might also be able to contend for the win. Other guys in the mix would be Kennedy, Ritz, Teg, and Solinsky. True and Hill could be a factor, but just seem a little less dominant than the others. I guess Chelimo has to be considered as well, although he's a fairly "new" American.
5000: Similar to the 3K, although strangely the 10K man Rupp seems to be more vulnerable in this event than the 3K. I still say Lagat wins, and again Rupp, Jager, Kennedy, Ritz, Teg, and Solinsky would be in the mix. Chelimo too.
10000: Rupp wins, no question. Guys like Lagat, Jager, and Kennedy are no longer a factor. Ritz, Teg, and Solinsky are still in mix, in fact this may be Ritz's best event. Meb and Abdi enter the picture (maybe even Salazar?). I'll go with Ritz as 2nd best, with Meb and Abdi right on him.
Half: Kind of hard to say because it isn't run as frequently. Rupp, Ritz, Meb, and Abdi still in the picture. Teg and Solinsky not so much. But the favorite may be Hall, he was just so damn fit in his prime, I think he could run away from all of these guys. Could older guys like Salazar, Shorter, and Rodgers be a factor? Possibly, but I just don't see them keeping up with guys like Rupp, Hall, or Ritz. I say Hall wins with Rupp and Ritz battling for second.
So it looks like two guys are pretty competitive over all those distances: Rupp and Ritz. Given Rupp's PRs and medal count, I have to go with him as the greatest American distance runner. He could probably finish in the top 2 in all of these hypothetical races (with a clear number 1 for 10K). Plus, for those of you who value, Olympic medals, well he has two of them, which is one or two more than most of the super fast guys on this list.
My top 3: 1) Rupp, 2) Ritz, 3) Lagat
Other greats in no particular order: Kennedy, Teg, Solinsky, Jager, Meb, Abdi
CoachExpert wrote:
Todd Williams
Mark Nenow
Joe Falcon
End of thread.
Agree
I can see why the older guys get pissed when someone like snow blow posts that garbage with no sense of history. Solinsky cannot even factor into this discussion, I'm sorry. Huge fan of his but give me a break. No US titles, no Olympic teams, no American records.
I also think the older guys get their blinders on with how it was "back in the day". Billy Mills is an inspiration but Rupp's silver is more impressive than his gold given the competition.
Seems like a "huge fan" of Solinsky would remember his 26:59 AR.
Jason Rexing!
World record in the marathon
Olympic Marathon gold
Boston Marathon champion
Chicago Marathon champion
PB still holds up today
Joan Benoit is more accomplished than all else mentioned yet.
As someone mentioned, the analysis is sound, but I would think you need to expand the criteria for the ranking beyond Olympic performances to other world class performances/achievements, such as:
World Championships T&F
World XC
Marathon Majors
World and American Records
?other I might be missing?
And as far as "old school" runners being included...they shouldn't automatically be penalized for the era they ran in. Yes, the Africans weren't on the scene yet, but there are huge disadvantages they were handicapped with that limited them (i.e. cinder tracks, training methods, equipment, health care/medicine, financial support, etc, etc...) that should be considered.
I can't believe this guy's troll thread got so many posts.
3/10
Anyway, if you call the greatest American distance runner the man who was objectively the fastest runner history for the longest time, it is unquestionably Bernard Lagat. If you call it the runner who was best relative to the world for the longest time, Lagat still has a strong case.
That guy posting about how only Olympic medals matter (and not WC medals or times) is a troll or a fool.
Mary Decker
I gotta go with Rupp for the win. Two Olympic medals. Multiple American Records. Not a bad mile at 3:50 indoors. His competitiveness over the years has faired well. Lagat sorry but you're naturalized and most of your career was on Kenya. Chelimo just no. You took a shortcut to citizenship so no. Ritz I don't think so. Shorter yeah you are definetly making it hard to have Rupp as first so I'll give it a tie. I consider 3k to marathon . Meb you were never that great on the track. Lagat is 2nd. Then I would say 3rd would most definetly have to be Centro/Jager. I expect Jager to win some medals in the years to come so I put him there based on expectation. You have to be joking if you don't consider Centro. Like really? 2 WC medals and an Olympic gold.
CrossFan wrote:
As someone mentioned, the analysis is sound, but I would think you need to expand the criteria for the ranking beyond Olympic performances to other world class performances/achievements, such as:
World Championships T&F
World XC
Marathon Majors
World and American Records
?other I might be missing?
And as far as "old school" runners being included...they shouldn't automatically be penalized for the era they ran in. Yes, the Africans weren't on the scene yet, but there are huge disadvantages they were handicapped with that limited them (i.e. cinder tracks, training methods, equipment, health care/medicine, financial support, etc, etc...) that should be considered.
This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say, except that I would also add Diamond League points and career longevity. And also to a lesser degree, age group records, looking at Lagat's recent accomplishments.
I think the OP was teasing about discounting Centro vs Webb but who knows. It's an interesting question -- one could assign points to everything (WCs are important, but maybe not as many points as Olympics) and just tally it up! Anyone have time to do that?
Yeah Meb was so bad on the track his 10k AR only stood for 9 years...
I'm basing my list on running accomplishments as well as the ability to motivate/inspire/contribute to the sport and other athletes:
1) Bill Rodgers
2) Frank Shorter
3) Jim Ryun
4) Galen Rupp
5) Pre
GuyInTheKnow wrote:
Joe Gray
+1
You are not really an American when your first two Olympic games were run for Kenya...my opinion anyway and I realise many will disagree. Other countries prohibit athletes who competed for other countries from switching. This is different than what Mo Farah did as he never competed for Somalia.
I think Pre is underrated. It's likely that he was the best clean 5k runner in the world when he finished 4th at the olympics. We all know the rumors about Viren. Pre was clearly 2nd best in that race, but killed himself trying to break the unbreakable Finn.
I would offer one possible flaw when it comes to the Olympics. The Olympics biases things a bit because it places a great deal of weight upon a single day in an athlete's career, versus weighing a whole career. For example, though Schul has the only gold in an Olympic 5000 for an American, I would not rank him highly because his period of dominance was very short, only a couple of years, and then he was done by '68.
Frank Shorter ranks highly with his medals, and his longevity, but it hurts him a bit that he does not have a WR, nor even an OR.
So in that regard I think someone like Gerry Lindgren deserves consdieration, because even though he did not get an Olympic medal, it was not because he was simply washed up, but because he had bad luck in '64, and was injured in '68. But in terms of sheer dominance, he ranks up there being basically unbeatable from 64 to 69. And he has a world record.
Ultimately my pick though would be Jim Ryun because he has all the elements: world records, dominance at the high school, collegiate and world levels, and an Olympic medal (A silver, which undoubtedly would have been gold had he not been racing in unfair conditions).