Do slow runs make slow runners?

I mostly agree except that 80% of max HR is pretty aggressive for an easy run. It's at the very upper end of what Jack Daniels calls easy and most people find Daniels' easy paces too fast. If you are going by HR, shoot for something closer to 70% HR max for easy days but be sure to have a few days a week that are harder, tempo-like efforts. The heart rate you can comfortably sustain in a tempo is going to depend a lot on your fitness so there isn't one HR to shoot for.

It doesn't matter what your easy run pace is, it's meant to be for recovery. You don't get better by speeding up your easy pace, your easy pace gets faster as you get better.

when I broke 14 I had been running 105-115 mpw for 2 months of just easy running and strides for speed assistance before adding tempos and more intensity.

Jim B wrote:

So today was the only time I could see my new xc coach next year (old coach moved) until the first day of school in August (state rules). I told him that I will run more miles this summer than ever before but he said to only put in quality miles like he says so (he will email the team a training schedule later tonight). He said at least three times that "slow runs make slow runners." Is this true? Explain to me why or why not.

I cut/pasted my answer to another topic. Shortly, I don´t agree with your coach, IF you work also your basic speed frequently. We are distance runners, strength is speed too. I mostly ran slow in my easy runs, mileage up to 205k per week, but my 400m time (relay 52,7/53,01 official) improved year after year, basically. The key is to work your top speed too with all of the endurance work.

"A weekly top end speed session, preferably a part of it on a steep hill. I used a combo of hill/flat sprints and it was after wu and some drills, 5x50m uphill relaxed acceleration/walk back rec and then 4x40-50m uphill close to all out / 3´rec /5-6´rec and then 2-4 x 50-80m flat ground sprints for maximal speed /3´rec. This shouldn´t take more than about 40minutes. Did this the day after an easy long run and lifted some low rep weights afterwards. Occasionally did some (5-6) 100-150´s @ 90% /5´rec, for anaerobic capacity. These helped my 400m speed to stay strong enough with all of the endurance training. DON`T OVERDO this sprint work, it´s mostly neuromuscular, you don´t have to do much of it and not more than once a week / 10 days. Progression on this too, so start with caution."

This is a good point. Don't just hobble around at an almost walking pace. It's a good idea to run relatively easy most of the time, but as Lydiard said, you should finish these runs "pleasantly tired."

70% HR runs should feel very very easy. Very few runners do easy runs at this pace but they should. Keep in mind that even the workout days should be sub threshold per Lydiard. Around 80-85% HR max.

In the summer & aerobic phase It's always better to train too slow than it is to train too hard. Like John Hadd wrote, squeeze the toothpaste from the end, not in the middle.

dfal;kdsa wrote:

There's nothing wrong with slow runs. My best times have always came after increasing miles and slowing training speeds. 5 easy days a week & 2 moderate tempo runs is all you need. Do some reading on Arthur Lydiard.

I don't doubt for a minute this is fact for this individual . But, the problem is not everyone responds to low intensity training like this.

Ethan's post is a good one as was another mentioning running tempo with a negative split.

Latsran wrote:

It doesn't matter what your easy run pace is, it's meant to be for recovery. You don't get better by speeding up your easy pace, your easy pace gets faster as you get better.

If easy runs were purely for recovery then you would do them the same as a taper run. 4/5miles v easy. There is clearly some aspect of aerobic adaptation and strength building involved in steady milage.

Some would say run as fast as you can without it having a drastic effect on injury rate or your sessions (workouts). This probably works out at 630-710 for a club runner on 60mpw

If you coach had said "only running slow makes a slow runner." He'd be right. If hes talking negatively​ of running slow 5 days a week and 2 quality workouts... I'd say your coach is an idiot. He knows just enough to be dangerous. According to Daniels you get the exact same adaptions running any pace between marathon pace to running so slow that your form breaks down. For me, that'd be saying 9:00 pace is just as effective as 6:40 pace. The difference is that if I ran all my milage at sub 7 pace, id get injured and would never have energy to run real workouts

This is really a question that you should ask your coach. Slow is relative, what is slow to him?

If you only run slow then yes you will be slow. You should be doing some of your running at a slow pace, you should be doing some of your running at a moderate pace, and you should also be doing some of your running at a fast pace. How much of each is up to coach.

Latsran wrote:

It doesn't matter what your easy run pace is, it's meant to be for recovery. You don't get better by speeding up your easy pace, your easy pace gets faster as you get better.

So during your base phase your doing something like 100 mpw+ to recover? Silliest thing I´ve ever heard. To quote a famous LR poster:

"whenever you´re lacing up your shoes you´re training. Recover is something you do in your couch."

The great thing about summer running in preparing for cross country is that there is no expectation for each run every day. As long as you are getting in the miles, you are basically able to do things your way. Maybe one day you are feeling good so you run a little faster and use that run as a "tempo" run in a way... and another day you are feeling pretty tired so you use the run to log time on feet. The worst thing you can do, though, is move further from that line of balance and either under train or over train yourself. IMO the worst thing that you can do is run fast all summer, come into the season pretty fit, and then burn out towards the end. You may be the fittest coming into the season, but you will not improve like those who trained the right way over summer.

Okay guys as in "slow runs" he means what you would call easy or recovery runs. He wants us to do hard interval workouts 3 times a week with 2 mile all out runs in between. It seems like any run that doesn't kill yourself is a slow run to him.

Your coach is an idiot. Avoid him as long as you can this summer.

¯_(ツ)_/¯At least seeing him this summer is against state rules

reality czech wrote:

Your coach is an idiot. Avoid him as long as you can this summer.

Pretty ridiculous. Running "slow" still has benefits. As long as it's not jogging it's fine. I went from 4:29/9:30s in HS to 3:44/13:48 in college off of it. When I took over my current coaching gig the average 5k on the team was 15:03. They didn't run enough and the mileage they did was too fast BECAUSE the old coaching situation used exactly that VDOT calculator. A couple seasons later and the the average was 14:27. Frequently get guys to NCAA regionals, etc. Training changed, but a big factor was slowing down on runs. Some would call it "junk" mileage.

For the record, I have personally ran with 3 separate high level guys who all ran in that range for mileage. One ran 1:44, the other 3:37, and the other was a 62-mid half marathoner. It's not as uncommon as you think.

Jim B wrote:

So today was the only time I could see my new xc coach next year (old coach moved) until the first day of school in August (state rules). I told him that I will run more miles this summer than ever before but he said to only put in quality miles like he says so (he will email the team a training schedule later tonight). He said at least three times that "slow runs make slow runners." Is this true? Explain to me why or why not.

Weight lifters will do reps of lighter weights for various purposes. So no the answer is you are young and don't understand the breadth of the whole training sciences you will learn

No. Slow running can be exceptionally beneficial. I do a lot of my runs between 8-8:30 pace and race ten miles @ 6 min. pace. Consistency is the key. Easy running helps with injury prevention as well.

pretty good for 3k...how did you do it ?