I'm tired of of these leaks and repetitive articles over the same thing. Like I said earlier, they have been investigating the NOP for two years.
Either go or get of the pot.
I'm tired of of these leaks and repetitive articles over the same thing. Like I said earlier, they have been investigating the NOP for two years.
Either go or get of the pot.
32oo2 wrote:
what's supposed to be the worst/most serious allegation here?
the infusions of a legal substance were an illegal 4 hours instead of 1?
it's been clear for over a decade they were probably overeager in their thyroid medications, when the Gouchers both got prescribed with hypothyroidism as soon as moving to Portland.
From an anti-doping perspective, yes, I think the claim of excessive infusion is the biggest claim. Again, that was covered in the Times of London article but has more details here.
I think it is clear that you have to read this in light of what USADA is trying to accomplish. This report was written as part of a complaint to the Texas medical board. Remember USADA already tried and failed to use the courts to compel Dr. Brown to give testimoney under subpoena. They are trying to use everything and anything they can to force release of more records. In that context, I personally believe the claim of altering records is more significant.
I would be shocked if the Texas Medical Board had either the power or authority (or even the interest) as part of its investigatory powers, to hand over or compel production of documents to a third party.
So, I believe this will fail as a strategy to further the investigation. If it hasn't already failed. This was filed, or prepared, or something, over a year ago. To date Dr. Brown's medical license is still clean.
There are also a bunch of allegations about Salazar handing out medications (Celebrex here), but I don't think these would be violations by Dr. Brown and they are not violations of WADA rules (as Celebrex is not on the banned list) and allegations about unnecessary thyroid prescriptions (again, not on the banned list and within Dr. Brown's discretion and expertise).
The bigger question to me is one of medical ethics. I'm just not convinced that a doctor can serve his patient (Ritz, let's say) ethically while also being under a contract with that patient's employer. The same conflict exists with NFL team doctors, for instance. Inherent conflicts.
http://reg.tmb.state.tx.us/OnLineVerif/Phys_ReportVerif_new.aspNike Marketing Team wrote:
I'm tired of of these leaks and repetitive articles over the same thing. Like I said earlier, they have been investigating the NOP for two years.
Either go or get of the pot.
Too bad Nike can't fire the guy in charge of the witch hunt.
OG slum dog wrote:
Farrah isn't mentioned...
Either wasn't deposed, or wasn't treated by Dr. Brown or both. I would go with wasn't treated by Dr. Brown, so not relevant for this report.
We know he received L-Carnitine injections.
mark b wrote:
Having just read the article it is now clearer than clear that, even if nothing in direct breach of the rules was going on, the general approach of Salazar and NOP was such that no runner with any conscience or self respect would want to be linked in any way with the programme.
Much of the details in the article apparently come from sworn statements; if this is true then these revelations cannot be dismissed as something said by individuals who have a personal axe to grind with Salazar, NOP or Nike. As a Brit I look forward to the day when UK Athletics breaks off all connection with Salazar and Nike.
Agreed
matty doperwitz wrote:
Rupper Dupper wrote:" "Salazar's conduct here is patently calculating, misleading, and dishonest," the antidoping officials wrote in the report... "
Well boo-effing-hoo. He's either violating doping rules or he isn't. If the L-carnitine infusions violate anti-doping rules, then USADA should do something about it.
And a media campaign against Salazar is not the 'something' they should be doing. It's starting to sound like a personal vendetta at this point.
No sane human who wants a fair sport can read that report and think that Salazar, in his own words, is above board. It is clear he and his athletes are doing everything he can to skirt the rules. Dopers.
I feel like I'm reading the same story year after year after year, yet the needle has not moved one bit. Same exact story every time we get close to a USA Championhsip.
If USADA has something concrete, say so. If not, it's time to move on. Good grief.
Don't we have bigger doping problems than whether or not Tara Welling took too much of a legal supplement six years ago?
agip wrote:
matty doperwitz wrote:No sane human who wants a fair sport can read that report and think that Salazar, in his own words, is above board. It is clear he and his athletes are doing everything he can to skirt the rules. Dopers.
+1
Go back and re-read what I wrote. I didn't say I thought he was above board. Didn't even imply it. What I said was that USADA should quit waging a media war against Salazar and actually bust him if they think they have something to bust him for.
The article plainly says that USADA thinks Salazar violated anti-doping rules with the L-carnitine infusions. Yet Salazar is still coaching, his athletes are still competing in meets (very well, in fact), and USADA has "not announced sanctions against anyone implicated in the report."
How are people not frustrated by USADA here? They have a boat load of testimony, they have emails, and they have medical records clearly indicating that Welling and Ritz were getting more than that allowable amount of L-carnitine through the infusions. They need to stop it with the character assassination in the newspapers and bust his a$$ already.
Do people on this board understand that the vast majority of distance athletes do not subject themselves to this sort of sketchy science applications? Going forward, I am holding the athletes culpable. I have like Ritz for a long time, but when someone says this is legal, but don't tell anyone, that should be a pretty big warning flag.
This was rumored to break during Boston marathon weekend but was pushed for multiple reasons.
OG slum dog wrote:
Farrah isn't mentioned...
As previously reported by The Times of London, the report also said that Galen Rupp, an Olympic silver medalist, and Mo Farah of Britain, one of the most successful runners in Olympic history, also received infusions of L-carnitine.
They obviously don't have the level of conclusive evidence that they do about Welling or Ritz because the others didn't testify but I find it hard to believe that they juiced up Ritz with illegally high infusions and played it straight and narrow with the others.
And although correlation is not causation...
In January 2011, Salazar became aware of research from the University of Nottingham in England that appeared to show significant improvement in performance when athletes raised their L-carnitine to extremely high, unnatural levels.
He (Ritz) received the infusion — which now took just 1 hour 10 minutes — in Dr. Brown’s Houston offices on Dec. 13, 2011.
And 9 months later, NOP runners went 1-2 at the Olympics. Rupp's previous highest finish was 7th. Farah went from middle of the pack to world-beater.
Rupper Dupper wrote:
How are people not frustrated by USADA here? They have a boat load of testimony, they have emails, and they have medical records clearly indicating that Welling and Ritz were getting more than that allowable amount of L-carnitine through the infusions. They need to stop it with the character assassination in the newspapers and bust his a$$ already.
I'm frustrated by USADA.
It is possible that the records that they have clearly indicating that the athletes received more than the allowable amount of L carnitine (this is not technically accurate, it is the volume of saline that is regulated, not the L Carnitine) are not as clear as proposed.
This document is clearly floating around and has been seen by many, many people. Somebody needs to publish the underlying document, they way Buzzfeed published the Trump dossier...
If only their were some enterprising track and field journalists that were interested in doping stories...
Andre Dawson wrote:
This was rumored to break during Boston marathon weekend but was pushed for multiple reasons.
What was rumored to break?
Get this cruminal daway from our sport forever!! !
it was probably pushed back because of sweet little innocent Jordan Hasay's marathon debut. It was interesting that half of social media never mentioned JH performance and directed more praise at Desi who clearly finished farther back.
If Usada can bust them on the infusion amount, they should. And it's not like NOP shouldn't lose credibility until that happens. But it's reasonable to expect that the same people pushing physical performance limits also walk another line.
Ilovelamp wrote:
it was probably pushed back because of sweet little innocent Jordan Hasay's marathon debut. It was interesting that half of social media never mentioned JH performance and directed more praise at Desi who clearly finished farther back.
What was pushed back?
The report raises some interesting points:
1. Infusions greater than 50 mL (scientists would likely have to reverse engineer the blood workups after an infusion and compare them to the pre-infusion workup to see if it is possible to calculate how much was infused.
2. Falsifying of records to cover up infusions greater than 50 mL (Texas Medical Board will have a field day with this. To anyone who is asking, however, no, the Board is under no obligation to release any records to USADA and may even have to avoid doing so out of patient privacy issues).
3. I do not know if that drug celebrex requires a prescription. I doubt that it is banned. But that is weird. This isn't anything new. But it is still weird.
4. Economic Duress. Each report that has come out (ProPublica, Times of London, NYTimes) has insinuated that if you did not do as you were told, Salazar would see that you were cut from the club and possibly from Nike overall. These kids ... and they are still kids for the most part when they sign that first deal ... need other options for financial sponsorship/income. When your footwear/apparel sponsor is responsible for about 75% of your annual income, that is a really difficult position to be put in. Either conform, of find yourself out on the street looking for a job - everything you had spent your life focusing on is now over.
One mistake in the article (or at least, questionable writing): "But in the report, antidoping officials depicted Salazar as a medicine chest whose door swung open for the world-class athletes on Nike’s payroll. They said he provided or helped gain access to prescription-dose vitamin D; calcitonin; ferrous sulfate; Advair; testosterone; and various thyroid medications. Many of the drugs have no proven benefits for runners."
I'm pretty sure testosterone will make you a superhuman runner......
Mr. Obvious wrote:
Rupper Dupper wrote:How are people not frustrated by USADA here? They have a boat load of testimony, they have emails, and they have medical records clearly indicating that Welling and Ritz were getting more than that allowable amount of L-carnitine through the infusions. They need to stop it with the character assassination in the newspapers and bust his a$$ already.
I'm frustrated by USADA.
It is possible that the records that they have clearly indicating that the athletes received more than the allowable amount of L carnitine (this is not technically accurate, it is the volume of saline that is regulated, not the L Carnitine) are not as clear as proposed.
This document is clearly floating around and has been seen by many, many people. Somebody needs to publish the underlying document, they way Buzzfeed published the Trump dossier...
If only their were some enterprising track and field journalists that were interested in doping stories...
Glad I'm not the only one!
You make a good point regarding the quality of the records, and thank you for clarifying the saline vs. L carnitine distinction.
One of the many things that bugs about this is that USADA talks to the media (or at least the media spins it) like this is an open and shut case. But nothing happens and nothing has happened for 2 years.
poster formerly known as Mundu wrote:
Old allegations but now appearing in high definition:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/sports/nike-oregon-project-alberto-salazar-dathan-ritzenhein.html?_r=0
Has anyone tried L-Carnitine? Curiosity is all that I have taken away from the article.