Solo Stanley wrote:
Title says it all. I honestly don't know any athletes who coach themselves. I know Ben true trains solo but I'm almost positive he has a coach.
Ben is coached by Tim Broe. Has been for the last few years. He's mostly solo, but he has guys go up to train with him occasionally.
Long term & context guy wrote:
Because it is very difficult to balance the two basic tasks, which are:
Be driven to achieve a vision of your future self that is much better than your current self
Be honest about your current ability so that you do the workouts that get you to that future vision in the correct manner- which is very slowly.
So- you have to be almost insanely hungry for work and success, and remarkably patient, at the same time. A good coach helps you do that.
+1 for this. Type A guy needs to be held back so he doesn't hurt himself. Type B guy needs to be pushed to reach his full potential, A good coach balances out the equation whatever that might be, because it's hard to be everything yourself and it's hard to be fully honest with yourself.
I have always considered it a badge of honor that I coach myself and have had moderate success at doing so. Most of the guys I run with have the same mindset. Lately, as I enter my mid-30's and seek loftier goals, I've begun to reconsider this position.
My normal training formula of 75mpw, weekend long run, and mid-week track session have done wonders... I've gone from 16:20/1:14/2:45 to 15:25/1:09/2:33 and I wonder how much further I could drop given the right guidance. I've also read a lot of marathon success stories on these boards that included something like, "and then I connected with a coach and [positive outcome x,y,z]."
In other words, I have always had the opinion that non-professional runners don't need coaching. Ironically, I seem to be reconsidering this stance as I get slightly faster.
I wish I was able to coach myself, instead of shelling out a few hundred a month for a
coach. My main problem is that a coach/set training plan keeps me much more accountable and focused. For example if I made my own training plan I feel like it would be too easy to convince myself to run 6 800's instead of 10, or run a slower tempo bc I had a "bad day" etc.etc. Point is, a coach gives me a greater amount of accountability and I have too much stress in my life as it and can't take on that type of planning at the moment.
If the title says it all, why did you write four more sentences?
I used to think it strange that more of the serious runners I know didn't become students of the sport, but at some point I realized that most people just don't want to be their own coach. It takes a certain personality and mind-set to enjoy getting into the details and looking for trends in your own training and really getting to know your body and how it responds. Personally, I think it's fascinating, but a high percentage of people just want to show up at the track and let someone else tell them what to do.
In general, I don't see anything wrong with that, but the downside would be that people might not be doing the best things for them on an individual basis, rather just doing whatever the group does (or online coach tells them).
So, in other words, a lot of people don't want to be their own coach, and probably a lot of people wouldn't be very good at it anyway.
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
doctorj wrote:Meb Keflezighi ??
Steve Ovett claims he was coaching himself. Rod Dixon was basically coaching himself too. Kip Keino.
No he didn't naturally as the athlete matures the balance shifts.
It does suit some athletes to coach themselves. Often a coach is required to hold an athlete back as much as anything. I wish when I was younger and running I'd known what I now know though.
Because when you get injured
Same reason you don't suck your own c*ck, am I right?
Runfastrunfar wrote:
almost right wrote:I don't disagree that it's great to have a good coach. Through HS and my DII world, I saw very little of it, though, and I've seen plenty of people get along on their own with various degrees of success.
I am sincerely sorry you had poor coaching through high school and DII. Unfortunately, there is little, if any motivation, to coach at the high-school level beyond those that truly love the sport AND want to give back.
Think about this, to be a high-school XC/Track coach you need to be able to commit 3-4 afternoons a week plus weekends (if you make it to sectionals/regional). This is then coupled with a criminal background check, CPR/First Aid - AED cert. Additionally, you have to deal with unmotivated teenagers, difficult/unavailable parents, and an adversarial coaching environment. Finally, you are liable for any and all issues to do with the program for a grand total of $1,500 for the season.
This week I saw a posting for a high-school Track Coach at a sports academy for $10-12 and hour. My local MacDonald's pays $11 an hour. Flipping burgers pays as much, if not more, than being responsible for the health and well-being of children.
Are you going to sign up for that?!
At the DII level, your program is at the whim of the AD and budget. The AD decides who they hire and if they will support the program. Many DII coaching positions are part-time. Just looking at the postings this week in DII for track jobs salaries are as low as $19,000 (this is BELOW the US Poverty-level - about $23,000 is the threshold) to about $40,000. Mind you, the $19,000 job is in a major US city. Rent alone will be more than 3/4 of this "salary".
Great post! (although somewhat off topic)
Ben True does not train solo. He is a member of the Saucony group that Tim Broe heads up
Not trying to be snarky but Jimmy was the head coach at the University of Florida and formed the FTC to offer post graduates an opportunity to use the facilities and develop training groups. This was more of an administrative entity and not hands on coaching. It is my understanding that Jack Bacheler planned the workouts. That is why i left Bill Rogers,Bob Hodge,Dick Mahoney,Jack Fultz, Randy Thomas etc of the GBTC off the list because they were actually trained by Bill Squires.
If you experiment on yourself, do your own research, plan your own workouts, design your own lifestyle and carry it all out you will know what accountability is. A coach can't hold you more accountable than an honest look in the mirror every night knowing you did all you could do.
The window for progressing towards optimal potential closes very quickly, why be a scientific study of one when you can benefit from the experience of a coach who has seen it all before.
Long term & context guy wrote:
Because it is very difficult to balance the two basic tasks, which are:
Be driven to achieve a vision of your future self that is much better than your current self
Be honest about your current ability so that you do the workouts that get you to that future vision in the correct manner- which is very slowly.
So- you have to be almost insanely hungry for work and success, and remarkably patient, at the same time. A good coach helps you do that.
This is the answer. I coach myself, not world class but a 2:17 marathoner. My biggest issue is holding myself back when I should. When I was in college my coach was much better at holding me back when I needed it than I am. Being self-coached leads to overtraining if you're not careful because you always assume you'll be able to handle the workload and not experience over-training or injury. Part of what makes elites great is the belief that you'll be able to handle more than is realistic.
cerutty wrote:
Names that come to mind that were self coached for the majority of their careers-Buddy Edelen,Ron Daws,Frank Shorter,Tom Fleming,Joan Samulson,Jeff Galloway,Bob Deines,Dick Beardsly,Bob Fitts,Herb Lorenz,Ron Hill,John Landy,Ted Corbitt,Hugh Sweeny,Amby Burfoot,Fred Best,Tom Osler,Jan Yerkes,Mike Spino and on and on. Different levels here but all successful.
Beardsley was coached by Bill Squires. Joan Samuelson was coached, for at least part of career, by Bob Sevene.
Mark Nenow was self-coached for the majority of his career. Craig Virgin was self-coached after leaving AW; I'm pretty sure Malmo was as well. Marty Liquori was self-coached after college.
Rod Dehaven was self coached.
Star wrote:
If the title says it all, why did you write four more sentences?
Haha. Touche.
The reality is that those that coach themselves or have very little feedback from a coach who is knowledgeable will not generally reach their maximum potential.
Athletes may think that they know it all but they don't watch themselves run they don't see the little things that a keen eye can help as part of the process.
Now if there are no quality coaches around or if you can not afford one by all means coach yourself. All elite athlete should be receiving feedback from someone besides themselves and I would know few who don't.
How many athletes stand on the olympic podium and are say " I did it all on my own and I would like to thank my ability to coach myself for this gold, silver, or bronze medal". This is the case in almost all sports!
Some of the best coaches are those that tried to coach themselves and never really made it but learned a whole lot during the process. Now that can be the golden nugget to take away from this.
Great topic